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Old 14.01.2013, 17:34
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UBS sending Americans a W-9 "request"

I got a letter from UBS in November 2012, which I've only just seen now because I get all my correspondence as e-documents, and I only check those when I'm getting ready to do my taxes....

As a "US person," I must authorize UBS to provide information to the IRS in compliance with FACTA, including filing IRS form W-9. If I refuse, my account will be closed.

Has anyone else gotten this?
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Old 14.01.2013, 19:15
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Re: UBS sending Americans a W-9 "request"

Yes, several people have had them on the forum. There are a few threads about the whole FATCA situation so do a search and UBS too and you should find all the relevant ones.
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Old 14.01.2013, 19:26
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Re: UBS sending Americans a W-9 "request"

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Yes, several people have had them on the forum. There are a few threads about the whole FATCA situation so do a search and UBS too and you should find all the relevant ones.
I tried IRS UBS, but it seemed a little dated. UBS FACTA didn't give any results. Sorry, but I was a little freaked out and was hoping that someone else had already dealt with this
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Old 14.01.2013, 19:34
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Re: UBS sending Americans a W-9 "request"

Form W-9 is most commonly used for the bank to prepare a 1099 to summarise your earnings / US reportable income. Basically, the formal way of obtaining your full name and social security number for IRS reporting.

Whats the problem?
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Old 14.01.2013, 20:50
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Re: UBS sending Americans a W-9 "request"

I have not seen one. We have no investments with UBS just mortgage and savings accounts. When we opened the accounts it was made clear we couldn't

They know my wife is American and I am a green card holder. I don`t think we have ever given them our SSN.
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Old 14.01.2013, 21:00
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Re: UBS sending Americans a W-9 "request"

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Form W-9 is most commonly used for the bank to prepare a 1099 to summarise your earnings / US reportable income. Basically, the formal way of obtaining your full name and social security number for IRS reporting.

Whats the problem?
Gosh, there's no "problem." Especially as I'm not exactly an heiress trying to mask my foreign income from my friends at the IRS. Also, as I'm not one of those silly Americans we all like to make fun of who doesn't understand her responsibilities as a member of the greatest nation EVER.

It just seemed odd to me that, after dutifully reporting my income to the US for the last, oh, six years and having employed a US tax "professional" during that time to help with all these long and so, so complicated forms, that gee! Here's another one!
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Old 14.01.2013, 21:00
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Re: UBS sending Americans a W-9 "request"

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I tried IRS UBS, but it seemed a little dated. UBS FACTA didn't give any results. Sorry, but I was a little freaked out and was hoping that someone else had already dealt with this
Here are some of the threads dealing with FATCA and banking problems:

Financial reporting requirements for US citizens - what are the facts?

Post Finance cancels accounts of American residents

U.S. Strikes FATCA Deals with Switzerland

Couldn't open a Mietkaution (Rent Deposit) account, Thanks FATCA

New Swiss banking regulations for U.S. citizens

Migrosbank - Americans should avoid it

Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

This one is from the Canadian Isaac Brock Society:

http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/11/...outrage-begin/

If you're happy for the bank to pass on your details to the IRS and you're US tax compliant, then sign the form. If not, good luck in finding a new bank that will take you is basically the message. The only other option is to renounce your US citizenship and even then you'll need to do the necessary tax form filling for the IRS.
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Old 14.01.2013, 21:07
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Re: UBS sending Americans a W-9 "request"

Okay, finally found the information in the Migros bank FACTA thread. Thanks. Obviously, I got the message that they'd be happy to close my account. Also, obviously, I've been filing my US taxes...but I guess it's time to get the little red passport!
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Old 14.01.2013, 21:23
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Re: UBS sending Americans a W-9 "request"

I've been getting those for years from our joint German account. It is just that the Swiss didn't ever comply with the US rules for reporting...at least that is the way I understand it.
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Old 14.01.2013, 21:41
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Re: UBS sending Americans a W-9 "request"

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I've been getting those for years from our joint German account. It is just that the Swiss didn't ever comply with the US rules for reporting...at least that is the way I understand it.
Don't think it's going to stay that way unfortunately drmom. The Swiss banks are jumping through hoops at the moment to sort themselves out over FATCA and we're the ones suffering for it. We're either dropped like a hot brick or made to sign pieces of paper to make sure there's no comeback against the bank.
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Old 14.01.2013, 21:59
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Re: UBS sending Americans a W-9 "request"

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Also, as I'm not one of those silly Americans we all like to make fun of who doesn't understand her responsibilities as a member of the greatest nation EVER.
Off topic, but just what makes you so sure that the USA is so great?

One thing I've learned after spending half of my life living abroad -- America's "greatness" is a fallacy. Unless you are in the top 1% (earning millions per year), for the remaining 99%, the quality of life is much higher in western Europe - better social services (medical insurance, employee protection, etc.), a much safer environment (less chances of being involved in a violent crime, less chance of being imprisoned, etc.). As a kid, the "America is great" was drilled into our heads, just like a religion. I'm glad that I was able to open my eyes and realize that it was a lot of marketing with little fact behind it.
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Old 14.01.2013, 22:06
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Re: UBS sending Americans a W-9 "request"

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Off topic, but just what makes you so sure that the USA is so great?

One thing I've learned after spending half of my life living abroad -- America's "greatness" is a fallacy. Unless you are in the top 1% (earning millions per year), for the remaining 99%, the quality of life is much higher in western Europe - better social services (medical insurance, employee protection, etc.), a much safer environment (less chances of being involved in a violent crime, less chance of being imprisoned, etc.). As a kid, the "America is great" was drilled into our heads, just like a religion. I'm glad that I was able to open my eyes and realize that it was a lot of marketing with little fact behind it.
James, you might want to have a little better grasp of the term "sarcasm" before you try to enlighten someone as to the error of their ways. Just sayin'.
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Old 14.01.2013, 22:06
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Re: UBS sending Americans a W-9 "request"

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Okay, finally found the information in the Migros bank FACTA thread. Thanks. Obviously, I got the message that they'd be happy to close my account. Also, obviously, I've been filing my US taxes...but I guess it's time to get the little red passport!
If the process is not yet started (to get the Swiss citizenship)... then it is too late.

International banks will drop US persons without the proper signatures and releases very soon. Banks will not go out of their way for you...

My suggestion - sign and file as expected. Once you have the red passport, then you can drop the blue one like many people have - me thinks many more that the reported numbers. When it comes time to renounce, be sure your taxes and reporting are in order for the past five years (minimum). If not, there could be complications.
JC
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Old 14.01.2013, 22:07
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Re: UBS sending Americans a W-9 "request"

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James, you might want to have a little better grasp of the term "sarcasm" before you try to enlighten someone as to the error of their ways. Just sayin'.
Note to self: Do not post when overtired. Sarcasm filter is deactivated.
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Old 14.01.2013, 22:22
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Re: UBS sending Americans a W-9 "request"

[QUOTE=swiss_in_training;1767530]As a "US person," I must authorize UBS to provide information to the IRS in compliance with FACTA, including filing IRS form W-9.[QUOTE]

Out of curiousity, is the following included in the authorization?

“With this Authorization, the Client herby expressly waives any protection or right under Swiss bank-client confidentiality and data protection laws to the extent necessary for the reporting of any Data hereunder. Further, the Client accepts and acknowledges that any Data that the bank discloses hereunder to the IRS will be subject to the laws of the US and will not be covered by Swiss law.”

I realize there is little you can do. Authorizing the W-9 is not a problem. Just what is being agreed to by the wording on the rest of the autorization?
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Old 14.01.2013, 22:38
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Re: UBS sending Americans a W-9 "request"

yes, it is "normal" as long as you are liable for US taxes (in the eyes of the IRS)
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Old 14.01.2013, 23:22
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Re: UBS sending Americans a W-9 "request"

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yes, it is "normal" as long as you are liable for US taxes (in the eyes of the IRS)
Yes, it's understood that "will be subject to the laws of the US " means filing a 1040, FBAR, 8938, etc., may be required. It's been a topic of conversation recently as to what other information could be sought 'subject to the laws of the US' since the powers of the Commisioner of the IRS allow s/he to ask for anything they wish. The 'hereunder' takes on a different meaning if it extends beyond the W-9 form and applies to an authorization to reveal all data/info the bank has, or is asked to obtain in accordance with it's compliance (PFFI), by the IRS. Not being paranoid (hopefully), just wonder if anyone here has heard anything in this regard?
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Old 15.01.2013, 10:48
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Re: UBS sending Americans a W-9 "request"

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If the process is not yet started (to get the Swiss citizenship)... then it is too late.

International banks will drop US persons without the proper signatures and releases very soon. Banks will not go out of their way for you...

My suggestion - sign and file as expected. Once you have the red passport, then you can drop the blue one like many people have - me thinks many more that the reported numbers. When it comes time to renounce, be sure your taxes and reporting are in order for the past five years (minimum). If not, there could be complications.
JC
I know it's too late for this one, and I did sign it. I've also been filing taxes and FBAR. 8938 isn't a requirement for me yet, but unless I start transferring money to accounts in my Swiss husband's name soon, eventually we'll get there too. Or they'll change the requirements for filing that form.

Honestly, every tax season is a big hassle, and it's expensive to deal with it, and I'm getting tired of it. I can only imagine that the requirements are going to get more and more convoluted as time goes on.
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Old 15.01.2013, 10:52
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Re: UBS sending Americans a W-9 "request"

[QUOTE=theOAP;1767876][QUOTE=swiss_in_training;1767530]As a "US person," I must authorize UBS to provide information to the IRS in compliance with FACTA, including filing IRS form W-9.
Quote:

Out of curiousity, is the following included in the authorization?

“With this Authorization, the Client herby expressly waives any protection or right under Swiss bank-client confidentiality and data protection laws to the extent necessary for the reporting of any Data hereunder. Further, the Client accepts and acknowledges that any Data that the bank discloses hereunder to the IRS will be subject to the laws of the US and will not be covered by Swiss law.”

I realize there is little you can do. Authorizing the W-9 is not a problem. Just what is being agreed to by the wording on the rest of the autorization?
That was in my copy too. I suppose it means that the IRS has access to the balances of the account and pretty much anything else they want. As my finances are pretty simple (paycheck, rent, savings), I suppose it's okay. I was more worried that this was something I should have done years ago, or that should be clarified with my other bank accounts (like the renter's account).
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Old 15.01.2013, 11:38
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Re: UBS sending Americans a W-9 "request"

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Gosh, there's no "problem." Especially as I'm not exactly an heiress trying to mask my foreign income from my friends at the IRS. Also, as I'm not one of those silly Americans we all like to make fun of who doesn't understand her responsibilities as a member of the greatest nation EVER.

It just seemed odd to me that, after dutifully reporting my income to the US for the last, oh, six years and having employed a US tax "professional" during that time to help with all these long and so, so complicated forms, that gee! Here's another one!
Reporting your income properly for the last 6 years has nothing to do with it.

Employing or not employing a US tax professional has nothing to do with it.

This one is not long or complicated.
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