Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #181  
Old 22.03.2017, 00:17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: zh
Posts: 380
Groaned at 18 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 106 Times in 63 Posts
giff is considered knowledgeablegiff is considered knowledgeablegiff is considered knowledgeable
Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
For an EFT index, crazy high expenses of 0.35%.
But it seems hard to find European funds with lower expenses. Us funds are much cheaper.
Reply With Quote
  #182  
Old 22.03.2017, 09:02
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: geneva
Posts: 31
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
mushyyy has no particular reputation at present
Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

Let me provide some perspective:
-european etfs have a higher expense ratio than american one, but in europe you can have access to accumulating etfs, hence you don't pay taxes on dividends since they are automatically accumulated
-the currency of the fund has no influence on your investment. Invest in a fund denominated in Eur is the same as the one denominated in Chf
- the reason behind investing in eur/usd denominated funds is liquidity and availability: normally these funds have lower bid/ask spread, are quoted in multiple markets and are better capitalized
Reply With Quote
  #183  
Old 22.03.2017, 09:49
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 643
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 255 Times in 174 Posts
Enohzee is considered knowledgeableEnohzee is considered knowledgeableEnohzee is considered knowledgeable
Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
-european etfs have a higher expense ratio than american one, but in europe you can have access to accumulating etfs, hence you don't pay taxes on dividends since they are automatically accumulated
I've heard both sides on this one, but I believe that Accumulating ETFs are actually taxed in the same way as Distributing ETFs, even if the income is not paid out in cash and is instead used to automatically buy more shares.
Reply With Quote
  #184  
Old 22.03.2017, 22:31
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: geneva
Posts: 31
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
mushyyy has no particular reputation at present
Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
I've heard both sides on this one, but I believe that Accumulating ETFs are actually taxed in the same way as Distributing ETFs, even if the income is not paid out in cash and is instead used to automatically buy more shares.
Absolutely not: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Nonr...omiciled_funds
Reply With Quote
  #185  
Old 22.03.2017, 23:28
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CH
Posts: 2,304
Groaned at 87 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 2,002 Times in 1,123 Posts
ivank has a reputation beyond reputeivank has a reputation beyond reputeivank has a reputation beyond reputeivank has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
but in europe you can have access to accumulating etfs, hence you don't pay taxes on dividends since they are automatically accumulated
Wrong, accumulated dividends are taxable income in switzerland. Get ready for a surprise when they process your tax declaration. Another reason they suck is that you lose up to 30% on the way to uncle sam in withholding taxes before anything's reinvested! It's like paying an extra 0.6% in addition to an already ridiculously expensive quoted TER, how crazy is that? Some hedge funds might charge you less already. With US-domiciled distributing funds you can claim that witheld money fully back.
Reply With Quote
  #186  
Old 22.03.2017, 23:44
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: geneva
Posts: 31
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
mushyyy has no particular reputation at present
Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Wrong, accumulated dividends are taxable income in switzerland. Get ready for a surprise when they process your tax declaration. Another reason they suck is that you lose up to 30% on the way to uncle sam in withholding taxes before anything's reinvested! It's like paying an extra 0.6% in addition to an already ridiculously expensive quoted TER, how crazy is that? Some hedge funds might charge you less already. With US-domiciled distributing funds you can claim that witheld money fully back.

have you read the article i posted above? there are many inaccuracies in your reply that i don't know where to start..
Reply With Quote
This user groans at mushyyy for this post:
  #187  
Old 22.03.2017, 23:48
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CH
Posts: 2,304
Groaned at 87 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 2,002 Times in 1,123 Posts
ivank has a reputation beyond reputeivank has a reputation beyond reputeivank has a reputation beyond reputeivank has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
have you read the article i posted above?
Doesn't seem relevant to Switzerland. I spoke from personal experience - accumulated dividends are taxed here. If you owned some accumulating fund and didn't eventually have to pay the extra tax on them, this is technically tax evasion. It's not a crime and the tax office might not care or forgive you for small amounts after all, but they're normally a taxable income nonetheless. They might also not care if you're just a small taxed at source fish who's not even allowed to file a tax declaration.

Quote:
View Post
there are many inaccuracies in your reply that i don't know where to start..
Start somewhere and I'll try to do my best to explain how deep the rabbit hole is

Last edited by ivank; 23.03.2017 at 00:16.
Reply With Quote
  #188  
Old 26.03.2017, 15:31
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Vaud, Switzerland
Posts: 16
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
TerraceWag has no particular reputation at present
Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland/Cap Gains Tax

Have followed this thread from the first 2013 posting then skipped right up to this week!

My initial reason for searching is the question of Capital Gains Tax on an online brokerage account whilst living in Switzerland.

Need to know as I will soon open an account either with TD Direct (Luxembourg) or DBS Vickers (Singapore). I will be mostly a passive investor hoping to sit back and accrue 7-9% per year from three low-cost ETFs with an International flavour.

Any definitive answer on this CGT issue?

Thanks, TW.
Reply With Quote
  #189  
Old 26.03.2017, 15:35
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CH
Posts: 2,304
Groaned at 87 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 2,002 Times in 1,123 Posts
ivank has a reputation beyond reputeivank has a reputation beyond reputeivank has a reputation beyond reputeivank has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

There's no capital gains tax on stocks for individuals in Switzerland if you follow these 5 simple rules from Kreisschreiben Nr. 36, p.3 - they basically tell you to follow buy and hold strategy.
Reply With Quote
  #190  
Old 24.01.2019, 10:44
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 11
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
omoyano has no particular reputation at present
Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

Hi.

Some update?

I want to buy investsments fund (msci workd, fundsmith, Small caps,etc) in switzerland but with low taxes....

Now I have swissquote

Another bank with best low taxes?

Someone works with corner trader?

Thanks

Last edited by omoyano; 24.01.2019 at 11:14.
Reply With Quote
  #191  
Old 24.01.2019, 12:29
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 13,425
Groaned at 269 Times in 175 Posts
Thanked 15,893 Times in 6,740 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
You could have bought them on the margin with your existing stocks as collateral. Brokers' interest rates are very, very reasonable, e.g 1.5% at IB for CHF, and tax deductable too (= 30+% discount after taxes)
Trading on margin is one of the factors for taxable trading activity. I don't want to be taxed on my capital gains.
Reply With Quote
  #192  
Old 13.03.2019, 18:18
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Yverdon-les-Bains
Posts: 29
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
MustachianPost has made some interesting contributions
Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Hi.

Some update?

I want to buy investsments fund (msci workd, fundsmith, Small caps,etc) in switzerland but with low taxes....

Now I have swissquote

Another bank with best low taxes?

Someone works with corner trader?

Thanks
As for the broker, I can recommend you three as a Swiss investor (they are the ones with the lowest fees):
1/ Interactive Brokers
2/ CornèrTrader
3/ Degiro

I use personally the first 2 ones.
I wrote a detailed fees' comparison here if you want to know more.
Just know that there are some law in the US about an estate tax. I'm on my way to figuring it out for good, and will blogpost about it once done

Regarding funds, my two preferred ones are VT and VWRL. If you look for international coverage, they are the best fit in my opinion, with the lowest fees.
If you look for Swiss coverage, I recommend this one: UBS ETF (CH) SMIM (CHF) A-dis.
Reply With Quote
  #193  
Old 13.03.2019, 18:21
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 18,135
Groaned at 290 Times in 239 Posts
Thanked 15,780 Times in 8,783 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland/Cap Gains Tax

Quote:
View Post
Have followed this thread from the first 2013 posting then skipped right up to this week!

My initial reason for searching is the question of Capital Gains Tax on an online brokerage account whilst living in Switzerland.

Need to know as I will soon open an account either with TD Direct (Luxembourg) or DBS Vickers (Singapore). I will be mostly a passive investor hoping to sit back and accrue 7-9% per year from three low-cost ETFs with an International flavour.

Any definitive answer on this CGT issue?

Thanks, TW.
No CGT tax as a Swiss resident.
Reply With Quote
  #194  
Old 06.11.2019, 12:14
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: zürich
Posts: 61
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts
patrickk has earned some respectpatrickk has earned some respect
Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

Thank you. I bookmarked your blog.

I'm interested in opening an account at IB or Degiro.

I read that some of the US brokers started a price war in October by offering 0 commission trades (Schwab, Fidelity...).

Has the landscape changed ? What is recommended today for a resident in Switzerland who wants to access cheap ETFs in a first place and trade single lines more frequently at a later stage ?
Reply With Quote
  #195  
Old 06.11.2019, 17:55
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Yverdon-les-Bains
Posts: 29
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
MustachianPost has made some interesting contributions
Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

IB also went lower regarding fees with IB Lite (for US customers only — and India too it seems).

But if you're Swiss-based, my recommandation is now IB or Degiro (not CornèrTrader due to their news inactivity fees... — see here for more details > https://www.mustachianpost.com/2019/...der-to-degiro/ (I'm personally now switching to Degiro after evaluating everything).

Regarding ETF trading, the rule is simple for me:
* If you have (or soon will have, aka in less than 1-2y) more than 100kCHF invested, then go for IB
* Else go Degiro who also has a nice free-ETFs list

Does that help you?
Reply With Quote
  #196  
Old 08.11.2019, 05:25
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: UK, but moving to Switzerland
Posts: 12
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
AnEnquirer has no particular reputation at present
Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

Can I ask how safe are investments arranged with Degiro?

Their website only states Shares & Bonds, Money Market Funds and Derivatives are held by "a separate custodian entity". There is no mention of Funds or ETFs.

When I looked at Degiro about 6 months ago I queried this. The only answer I got was :-

"At DEGIRO you can rest assured that your investments are held securely. DEGIRO uses a separate custodian entity to hold your assets, this means they are segregated from the assets of DEGIRO. The sole task of the custodian entity is to administer and safeguard your investments. By law it cannot perform any commercial activities. In the unlikely event that something is to happen to DEGIRO, your investments will not be treated as recoverable assets to DEGIRO's creditors, but will remain in the safeguarding of the custodian entity."

Further enquiries did not provide any clear answer who the custodian might be, and whether they were a completely separate company, or a company within the Degiro group.

I am also aware that in 2015 there were questions raised about their clearing processes, which were rebutted, but I did not find the rebuttal reassuring (possibly because of my lack of experience).

Other platforms clearly state what their policy is, and who the custodians are.

Am I missing something, or not understanding properly?
Reply With Quote
  #197  
Old 08.11.2019, 10:02
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Yverdon-les-Bains
Posts: 29
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
MustachianPost has made some interesting contributions
Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

I just pinged my contact there to get more precise answers. Will let you know.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Low cost Franchise in Switzerland dacasdo Business & entrepreneur 14 16.10.2014 04:00
Low Cost Bank Accounts in Switzerland? P.EANUT Finance/banking/taxation 22 22.06.2013 00:59
Investment in UBS bonds and funds eddy Finance/banking/taxation 2 07.09.2010 13:57
Low-cost airlines in Switzerland? Tweener Transportation/driving 59 02.02.2010 09:31
Investment in funds/bonds Ksheetu Finance/banking/taxation 9 17.09.2008 21:46


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:55.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0