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  #101  
Old 11.07.2016, 13:52
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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A tracker will always slighter under perform due to costs & fees however a tracking error of more than 0.25% is absurd.

I would & do invest in Fundsmith, it's my largest holding by a very huge margin over 50% on net worth, aiming for 80-90% within 2 years.
Got an idea why Morningstar would give it a 4 star rating? Are they just full of bull?
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  #102  
Old 11.07.2016, 14:59
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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A tracker will always slighter under perform due to costs & fees however a tracking error of more than 0.25% is absurd.

I would & do invest in Fundsmith, it's my largest holding by a very huge margin over 50% on net worth, aiming for 80-90% within 2 years.
80% of net worth in a single fund that barely has a track record?!

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  #103  
Old 12.07.2016, 17:35
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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80% of net worth in a single fund that barely has a track record?!

Noticed that one of it's top holdings is a tobacco firm. Is that why its smoking?
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  #104  
Old 12.07.2016, 18:13
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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80% of net worth in a single fund that barely has a track record?!

I have been following the fund managers views for over 30 years. The fund was £1 billion when I first invested, it's £7 billion today.

You choose to work every day, I choose to make investment decisions & not work, that's our individual choice.


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  #105  
Old 12.07.2016, 18:19
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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Got an idea why Morningstar would give it a 4 star rating? Are they just full of bull?
Looking at morning star's web page there is a disclaimer that they are partially funded by advertising.

How Amy fund that under performs its index over 1/3/5 years is more than 2 star beats me.
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Noticed that one of it's top holdings is a tobacco firm. Is that why its smoking?

Tobacco is a safe business, consumption does not drop in a recession. Warren buffet likes tobacco companies too. It's not supposed to be a green fund, which out of interest generally perform at the very bottom of investment criteria.

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  #106  
Old 13.07.2016, 12:03
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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I have been following the fund managers views for over 30 years. The fund was £1 billion when I first invested, it's £7 billion today.

You choose to work every day, I choose to make investment decisions & not work, that's our individual choice.


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Don't you have a more intelligent answer?
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  #107  
Old 02.01.2017, 13:22
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

If, resident in Switzerland, I invested 'offshore' e.g. TD Direct Investing (Luxembourg)

Am I correct in assuming that in Switzerland I would have to pay :-
  • Income Tax on any dividends received.
  • No Capital Gains Tax
  • Wealth Tax on the value of the investments
What about Swiss stamp duty on acquisitions or sales? Is it payable on investments held and dealt outside Switzerland? If yes, how is it reported and paid? (Someone asked this stamp duty question earlier, but I did not see an answer to it.)


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  #108  
Old 02.01.2017, 13:37
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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Don't you have a more intelligent answer?
Terry Smith has invested a further £115,000,000 in the fund making his holding approx £200,000,000. If the fund manager has that much invested, I am comfortable with my overweight position too.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing...h-equity-fund/
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If, resident in Switzerland, I invested 'offshore' e.g. TD Direct Investing (Luxembourg)

Am I correct in assuming that in Switzerland I would have to pay :-
  • Income Tax on any dividends received.
  • No Capital Gains Tax
  • Wealth Tax on the value of the investments
What about Swiss stamp duty on acquisitions or sales? Is it payable on investments held and dealt outside Switzerland? If yes, how is it reported and paid? (Someone asked this stamp duty question earlier, but I did not see an answer to it.)
Correct.

Swiss stamp duty only on trades made in CH
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  #109  
Old 03.01.2017, 20:52
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

Isn't Wealth Tax imposed only Wealth exceed specific amount?
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  #110  
Old 03.01.2017, 21:00
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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Isn't Wealth Tax imposed only Wealth exceed specific amount?
Yes, however in ZH you get an income tax deduction that exceeds your wealth tax liability for about the first 6 million. They pay people to declare assets as it's easy to hide in CH, numbered accounts exist for this very reason your name does not appear on the statement, sent in a hand written plain envelope
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  #111  
Old 03.01.2017, 21:04
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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Terry Smith has invested a further £115,000,000 in the fund making his holding approx £200,000,000. If the fund manager has that much invested, I am comfortable with my overweight position too.
But how much of his net worth is it?

And also his fund manages almost 10 bln now. With 1% cut, he's all set to make another 100 mln no matter which direction his luck goes.
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  #112  
Old 03.01.2017, 21:16
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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How much of his net worth is it?

And also his fund manages almost 10 bln now. With 1% cut, he'll make another 100 mln no matter which direction his luck goes.
He entered the Sunday Times rich list with 115 million in 2015, they can only guess as they don't have any special access to info.
I would guess excluding Houses, Helicopters, Planes & cars 95% of his money is in the fund.

I remember when his investment was 25% of the fund.

Your assuming the fund costs 0 to run, thats clearly is clearly not true, if the fund performs badly that 10 billion won't stay around long.
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  #113  
Old 03.01.2017, 23:28
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

https://www.truewealth.ch

do you guys have any experience with them? The founder of Digitec and some SwissRe ex-employee makes robo-trading on ETF's with low costs.
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  #114  
Old 04.01.2017, 00:02
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

Yes, I use truewealth (and happy to send you an invite, message me privately).

So far I'm very pleased. It's clearly modeled after the success of US startups in this field (wealthfront.com and betterment.com being the most prominent ones), but allows more control.

I think it's pretty close to ideal for most people without a personal interest in hand-managing their investments.
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  #115  
Old 04.01.2017, 00:38
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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Yes, I use truewealth (and happy to send you an invite, message me privately).

So far I'm very pleased. It's clearly modeled after the success of US startups in this field (wealthfront.com and betterment.com being the most prominent ones), but allows more control.

I think it's pretty close to ideal for most people without a personal interest in hand-managing their investments.
I think all are highly thought of due to the 'cheap' robotrading nature.

However, I'm not a believer in MPT-based funds and even these funds end up with about 1% annual fees. Why not just live with the variance and buy shares directly and bank the 1%?

Last edited by Phil_MCR; 04.01.2017 at 00:58.
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  #116  
Old 04.01.2017, 00:46
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

The fee is 0.5%, which I think is a fair price to pay for the convenience of automation for most people (and automatic rebalancing, etc). Yes, you can do it cheaper on your own. But most people without an interest in investing won't, and could reasonably conclude that the time they don't have to spend on managing their investments is worth more than 0.5%.
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  #117  
Old 04.01.2017, 00:59
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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The fee is 0.5%, which I think is a fair price to pay for the convenience of automation for most people (and automatic rebalancing, etc). Yes, you can do it cheaper on your own. But most people without an interest in investing won't, and could reasonably conclude that the time they don't have to spend on managing their investments is worth more than 0.5%.
Yes, better than not investing at all. Though with the TER it adds another .25 so 0.75% total, or ~1%.

Not bad, but if a long term investment, then why worry about the variance/re-balancing which adds costs?
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  #118  
Old 04.01.2017, 09:34
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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Yes, however in ZH you get an income tax deduction that exceeds your wealth tax liability for about the first 6 million.
I've checked it out, not really - you start to pay more already from 300-500k wealth. In the city of Zürich, as a single high income earner the threshold is at about 420k. And that's assuming that you've invested all of your wealth, as simple cash holdings aren't deductible.

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https://www.truewealth.ch

do you guys have any experience with them? The founder of Digitec and some SwissRe ex-employee makes robo-trading on ETF's with low costs.
I've looked at them briefly, signed up for a free trial account with them. They don't tell exact ETFs until you actually pay them, but funnily enough they disclose sectors and ETF prices which is more than enough to have a guess. So if you want to replicate their performance, there's no reason at all to part with 20+% of your wealth (that's what they'll take over the course of some 40 years horizon at 0.5% cut).

But frankly, disappointing. They told me to invest 40% in SMI (CH0017142719) - which is basically just Nestle and swiss pharma, that's not a solid way to diversify at all. And then about 15% each in US (VTI), emerging markets (VWO) and commodities. I have a different opinion on how a well balanced portfolio should look like. I also don't trust a provider that tells me that I should pay the rather expensive swiss stamp tax duty, which is actually easily avoidable. Just buy ETFs yourself and treat them as one reference opinion on how to split the assets if you must.
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  #119  
Old 04.01.2017, 10:53
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

The appeal of Truewealth, beyond the convenience, is that it's very customizable. I don't use their default asset allocation either, but bias heavily towards US. There are lot of people who think/say they can do better, and perhaps they can, but it requires discipline and taking an active interest in the the process. Truewealth provides:
- ease of use - transfer the money and everything else is taken care of
- automatic rebalancing
- removal of the emotional element (being tempted to buy into the asset that has done well short-term)

I think for a lot of regular folks, especially given the highly priced, and overly conservative Swiss investment offerings, what Truewealth offers is compelling.

The 20% that you're referring to is true in an abstract sense (based on straight formula values), but that assumes you never make any mistakes on your own, always have time to manage everything, etc. I think in the real world it's a more complex consideration.
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  #120  
Old 04.01.2017, 10:54
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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I've checked it out, not really - you start to pay more already from 300-500k wealth. In the city of Zürich, as a single high income earner the threshold is at about 420k. And that's assuming that you've invested all of your wealth, as simple cash holdings aren't deductible.
Your choosing to ignore the income tax deduction under line 16.3 (Zurich) where the deduction is several times the amount of the tax. I don't have the software on my computer to check however the tax payable at 500k is about 20% of the refund IIRC. I did not exclude cash when calculating the deduction, it was always accepted, perhaps because cash was always below 20% of assets.
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