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  #141  
Old 04.01.2017, 15:35
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

This is maybe not relevant to funds in Switzerland but I've invested by (very modest for now) pension into these three funds:

-UBS S&P 500 Index 0.09% ongoing charge
-FS 0.97% ongoing charge
-Vanguard LifeStrategy 100% Equity 0.24% ongoing charge

All three performed similarly last year but thinking of reducing the FS portion due to the high ongoing charge.
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  #142  
Old 04.01.2017, 15:50
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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I think I'd rather pay 1% to Fundsmith guy, than to truewealth. He's actually doing something meaningful for it in my opinion: looks for undervalued but solid companies, tries to minimize loss in crisis times, managed to beat the index several years in row even though that wasn't the goal, gives interesting talks and even wrote a book about his methods.

Whereas Truewealth basically just tells you: buy 40% of this index, 15% of that, hope for all the best on the markets, and don't forget to pay us 0.5% for this advice. I can find such advice all over the internet for free thank you very much. I don't see any added value in it for me.
what you pay for with the robofirms is not advice or stock-picking, but rather rebalancing under modern portfolio theory and indeed, due to economies of scale, they can do this more cheaply than you.

the questions are:

1. do you really care enough about variance to pay for this service?
2. does MPT really work given the theoretical basis relies on certain perfect models which do not exist in practice? i'd be interested to see how MPT dealt with the impact of, say, Brexit or Trump vs a non MPT portfolio.
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  #143  
Old 04.01.2017, 15:58
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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I think I'd rather pay 1% to Fundsmith guy, than to truewealth. He's actually doing something meaningful for it in my opinion: looks for undervalued but solid companies, tries to minimize loss in crisis times, managed to beat the index several years in row even though that wasn't the goal, gives interesting talks and even wrote a book about his methods.

Whereas Truewealth basically just tells you: buy 40% of this index, 15% of that, hope for all the best on the markets, and don't forget to pay us 0.5% for this advice. I can find such advice all over the internet for free thank you very much. I don't see any added value in it for me.
Does Fundsmith charge "only" 1%?

Still, it can't be affirmed whether Fundsmith is a good stock picker or is just having luck.
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  #144  
Old 04.01.2017, 16:00
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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The biggest world stock market is the US, so it's normal that the US figures high. Bear in mind the US companies earn their income world wide & some US quoted companies have zero US sales.
Nestle for example is Swiss, however 98% of profits are from abroad. More profit comes from India than Switzerland.

I really don't get rebalancing, over time the quality of your portfolio diminish. I would rather hold winners than losers.
Then your winners become losers and you are worse than if you had re-balanced.
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  #145  
Old 04.01.2017, 16:27
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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Then your winners become losers and you are worse than if you had re-balanced.
Probably not, if I look back 30 years I have owned 3 stocks that if I had never sold would each be worth over 500k.
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  #146  
Old 04.01.2017, 16:48
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

"They told me to invest 40% in SMI (CH0017142719) - which is basically just Nestle and swiss pharma, that's not a solid way to diversify at all. And then about 15% each in US (VTI), emerging markets (VWO) and commodities."

US, Swiss & emerging market equities as a 'diversified portfolio' LOL

I can't believe people buy into this stuff and can't be bothered to take any interest in securing their own and their family's financial future
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  #147  
Old 04.01.2017, 16:58
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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what you pay for with the robofirms is not advice or stock-picking, but rather rebalancing under modern portfolio theory and indeed, due to economies of scale, they can do this more cheaply than you.

the questions are:

1. do you really care enough about variance to pay for this service?
2. does MPT really work given the theoretical basis relies on certain perfect models which do not exist in practice? i'd be interested to see how MPT dealt with the impact of, say, Brexit or Trump vs a non MPT portfolio.
I think it's more widely accepted now that markets aren't exactly efficient, very often irrational, and so MPT isn't the ideal tool to study them. It uses beautiful statistical models (originating from 1950s, so it's not so modern actually) to control the risk and optimize reward/risk, but to feed those models you can only use past data and have to make simplifications to apply them in real world. Which makes it prone to breakdowns during market crashes, and anything way out of the ordinary aka 'black swan' events. Fundsmith/Berkshire's value investing philosophy is somewhat opposite to it - their goal is look for intrinstic value in the companies; that may not give you the best possible returns, but should preserve the value better during the crises.
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  #148  
Old 04.01.2017, 17:21
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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"They told me to invest 40% in SMI (CH0017142719) - which is basically just Nestle and swiss pharma, that's not a solid way to diversify at all. And then about 15% each in US (VTI), emerging markets (VWO) and commodities."

US, Swiss & emerging market equities as a 'diversified portfolio' LOL

I can't believe people buy into this stuff and can't be bothered to take any interest in securing their own and their family's financial future
Well Nestle only earns 2% of it's profits in CH, so it's 98% diversified from CH, however I get your point, your not getting what you think your paying for.
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  #149  
Old 04.01.2017, 21:19
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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I also don't trust a provider that tells me that I should pay the rather expensive swiss stamp tax duty, which is actually easily avoidable.
how do you avoid swiss stamp duty (not having any other residency addresses in the UK or US)?
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  #150  
Old 04.01.2017, 21:22
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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how do you avoid swiss stamp duty (not having any other residency addresses in the UK or US)?
Trade on the US market & not on the Swiss market. For EFT's you can trade on the UK market if you prefer.
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  #151  
Old 04.01.2017, 21:36
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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Trade on the US market & not on the Swiss market. For EFT's you can trade on the UK market if you prefer.
how do you open a UK account without having a residency there, or showing up physically to sign the papers (at least once)?
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  #152  
Old 04.01.2017, 21:38
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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how do you open a UK account without having a residency there, or showing up physically to sign the papers (at least once)?
Interactive Brokers UK accepts Swiss customers and the post between CH and UK still functions very well.
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  #153  
Old 04.01.2017, 21:40
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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Interactive Brokers UK accepts Swiss customers and the post between CH and UK still functions very well.
Thx good to know. I thought anti-corruption measures made it obligatory to at least show up once in person to sign the papers. Maybe it's not always this strict.

I looked at IB once, but it seemed overly complicated for a couch-trader like me, doing on averages less than 10 trades a year.
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  #154  
Old 04.01.2017, 21:43
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

Well, they were happy with just my documents scans when I registered a few years ago. They do technically have some sort of office in Zug, so maybe they could ask you to visit that if they really have to.
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  #155  
Old 04.01.2017, 21:50
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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how do you open a UK account without having a residency there, or showing up physically to sign the papers (at least once)?
No, US, UK or Swiss institutions are not much of a hassle, unlike Jersey, Luxembourg or Malta where I am tax resident.
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  #156  
Old 15.01.2017, 18:50
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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Interactive Brokers UK accepts Swiss customers and the post between CH and UK still functions very well.
I am wondering, what is the incentive to open an account with IB UK instead of IB US ?
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  #157  
Old 15.01.2017, 20:51
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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I am wondering, what is the incentive to open an account with IB UK instead of IB US ?
Nothing but probably less regulatory hassle. I just filled in a W8BEN once every three years & thats it.
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  #158  
Old 01.02.2017, 23:45
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

From my bank, I've gotten this as a recommendation:

http://finance.yahoo.com/quote/IE00B...E00BP3QZB59.IR


They didn't specifically comment on my suggestion of Fundsmith (which I'm still toying with). Probably doesn't help that the guy really openly loathes banks...
;-)


Above is even younger than Fundsmith, where people are complaining about its relative newish-ness.

I saw somewhere it contains Intel and Cisco - both of which I'm not sure are really geared for utility-status, especially Cisco....
But at least, it has a low TER.


My investment-horizon is really 20 years plus (until retirement, which is technically in 23 years but god knows how long we have to work then...if I have work at all).

I'm slowly departing from the idea^w pipe-dream of buying property here and just throwing it all into very long term investments.

The problem is, I still can't really see buying stocks at this point. So much money has been pumped into the stock market. It's bound to get a correction.
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  #159  
Old 02.02.2017, 07:54
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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The problem is, I still can't really see buying stocks at this point. So much money has been pumped into the stock market. It's bound to get a correction.
That has been the case for the last 4 years at least. Still, if you stick to that argument you have missed about 200% gains. I bought FB stock in 2014/5 for ca $70 ,Google for $550...
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  #160  
Old 02.02.2017, 08:02
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Re: Low cost Investment Funds in Switzerland

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That has been the case for the last 4 years at least. Still, if you stick to that argument you have missed about 200% gains. I bought FB stock in 2014/5 for ca $70 ,Google for $550...
True
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