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-   -   Credit suisse & PostFinance - W9 form and waiver forms (https://www.englishforum.ch/finance-banking-taxation/189183-credit-suisse-postfinance-w9-form-waiver-forms.html)

Medea Fleecestealer 05.10.2013 15:16

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sliced (Post 1989538)
I'm a duel citizen and lived here for 16 years, have delt with the same Bank the whole time. I got a letter from the Pensionkasse that I now have to put the money in my own Retirement Account with a Bank here. I went to my Bank last month and they said ok they will open a Retirement account, but nothing happened this week I went it and they said it's a problem as I'm a duel citizen and today I got a call where they are refusing to allow me any new account now. Asked what I should do now and they had no idea as other Banks are also refusing any new U.S. conection... I got an extension from the Pensionkasse as it was suppose to be done by the end of Sept. Now I'm at a loss as I sure don't want the money in a personal account, but want to keep it as retirement. Am at a loss...


Which bank? You could try UBS, they might let you set up a retirement account.

Guest 05.10.2013 21:43

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

The US passport is a pain in the A$$...Unfortunately, the real work for change has to be on the US end. I would advise anyone who does not have any ties that would prevent them from renouncing right now and they have a second passport, doesn't have to be a Swiss passport, and they are fed-up with US foolishness to renounce as soon as possible. It's going to get worse. However, I understand when people have certain responsibilities, as myself, and doing so is not possible right now. I think it would be wrong to renounce and leave minors without any type of legal representation of one of their citizenship's. We are all duel except one. When they are old enough they can make up their own mind. I checked with the US and this is what they said concerning minors and renunciation:

RENUNCIATION FOR MINOR CHILDREN/INCOMPETENTS Citizenship is a status that is personal to the U.S. citizen. Therefore, parents may not renounce the citizenship of their minor children. Similarly, parents/legal guardians may not renounce the citizenship of individuals who are mentally incompetent. Minors seeking to renounce their U.S. citizenship must demonstrate to a consular officer that they are acting voluntarily and that they fully understand the implications/consequences attendant to the renunciation of U.S. citizenship.



I don't think an 8, 10, or 13 year old understands the "full" implications of renouncing their citizenship, well most don't. When they are older they can weigh the pros and cons for themselves. Here is an article about US citizens showing the "blue book" the door.
Oops..After going through the thread I may have been misunderstood. I don't have three children aged 8,10,and 13, I was just using the ages as an example. I have one. However, the scenario is the same. My apologies...:)

LHSEN 05.10.2013 23:34

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
I lived in Germany before moving to CH 2 years ago ... Back then the German banks already asking for W9 ... There's nothing to worry if you have nothing to hide.

Guest 06.10.2013 03:39

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

It would be an honor to burn it in the fire! :p
I'm actually considering whether I should use a few of the passport pages as toilet paper (that's what it will be worth anyways once I get a Swiss Passport); take a few swipes in McClean toilets over at the Bern SBB station before handing it over to an unsuspecting Vice-Consul at the US Embassy :).

Guest 06.10.2013 03:44

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sliced (Post 1989538)
I'm a duel citizen and lived here for 16 years, have delt with the same Bank the whole time. I got a letter from the Pensionkasse that I now have to put the money in my own Retirement Account with a Bank here. I went to my Bank last month and they said ok they will open a Retirement account, but nothing happened this week I went it and they said it's a problem as I'm a duel citizen and today I got a call where they are refusing to allow me any new account now. Asked what I should do now and they had no idea as other Banks are also refusing any new U.S. conection... I got an extension from the Pensionkasse as it was suppose to be done by the end of Sept. Now I'm at a loss as I sure don't want the money in a personal account, but want to keep it as retirement. Am at a loss...

I presume we are talking 2nd Pillar here. This would indeed be a worrying development, however a little weird since the IGA signed with Switzerland (hope it gets rejected in the possible upcoming referendum anyway) exempts Pension Funds from having to comply with FATCA reporting requirements.

meloncollie 06.10.2013 10:02

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer (Post 1989949)
Which bank? You could try UBS, they might let you set up a retirement account.

Word is that even the Big 2 are closing some Pillar 3 accounts for Americans, including HNW tax-and-reporting compliant customers.

The issue seems to be that with a managed Pillar 3 account there is the risk (for the bank) that some investments made might be those not allowed for Americans.

But not such a big deal, as Pillar 3 is often tax-ineffective for Americans.

---

If one decides to hold on to the blue passport (as we must ) one might consider whether moving the bulk of one's assets back to the US is a sensible move, or not. For many this is a workable solution.

We bank with one of the 'Big 2' here and with it's US branch as well. We keep most of our accounts in the US, leaving only enough in CH for expected needs. The CH and US entities are separate despite the shared name, and transition between two branches is a bit cumbersome, but on the whole it works for us.

Will_F 09.10.2013 23:17

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Hi all,

just read through the Posts and have the paperwork on my table and a deadline for Oct. 25th to seliver or get my account closed down.

I'm not required to pay tax in US since I have never lived or worked ther but have the blue passport

Simple Question: Is there away around signing the papers or is it essential - period.


Reason for asking is - I just don't like being forced to do things where I see no necessity....

Thanks
Will

anowheels 10.10.2013 07:09

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Will_F (Post 1993422)
Hi all,

just read through the Posts and have the paperwork on my table and a deadline for Oct. 25th to seliver or get my account closed down.

I'm not required to pay tax in US since I have never lived or worked ther but have the blue passport

Simple Question: Is there away around signing the papers or is it essential - period.


Reason for asking is - I just don't like being forced to do things where I see no necessity....

Thanks
Will

You are required to at least file taxes if you are an American citizen. Depending on your income and other tax deductions, you may also have to pay taxes. This is regardless of residence. More information: search for IRS Publication 54, or look for the complaining on this forum ;)

And for the Credit Suisse forms - well, if you don't sign, they kick you out, which they write pretty clearly in the letter.

Medea Fleecestealer 10.10.2013 07:40

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Will_F (Post 1993422)
Hi all,

just read through the Posts and have the paperwork on my table and a deadline for Oct. 25th to seliver or get my account closed down.

I'm not required to pay tax in US since I have never lived or worked ther but have the blue passport

Simple Question: Is there away around signing the papers or is it essential - period.


Reason for asking is - I just don't like being forced to do things where I see no necessity....

Thanks
Will

As anowheels says, regardless of whether you owe the US any tax money, you still have to file US tax returns. It's required by US law and because the US bases its tax system on citizenship, not residency, it doesn't matter whether you're living in the US or elsewhere. So long as you're a US citizen you must file and possibly pay US tax.

All banks will require you to sign a W-9 so it's either do that or lose your account/s. It's part of the FATCA law that they do so.

The only other way to avoid signing up, providing you have a second citizenship, is to renounce or relinquish your US citizenship so you are no longer an American. Difficult with your tight deadline, but if you get on to the US embassy straightaway to make an appointment to do this, then you could tell your bank and they may give you an extension while you go through the process. The embassy here in Switzerland is pretty quick in dealing with the whole process so you should get your CLN (Certificate of Loss of Nationality) in a few months. Once you have that, it's proof for the bank that you're no longer a US citizen so have no need to sign a W-9.

Be thankful that signing a W-9 is all that Credit Suisse are asking for at present. A while ago I read a post that they were requiring all US clients to also provide proof that they'd done their US tax filing via a US tax preparer. Otherwise they were closing accounts. That was a while ago though so maybe they've changed their requirements.

st2lemans 10.10.2013 08:19

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer (Post 1993515)
As anowheels says, regardless of whether you owe the US any tax money, you still have to file US tax returns. It's required by US law

Only if you earn over USD 9500/year or so, so a stay-at-home spouse has no need to file.

Tom

Medea Fleecestealer 10.10.2013 08:29

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by st2lemans (Post 1993527)
Only if you earn over USD 9500/year or so, so a stay-at-home spouse has no need to file.

Tom

Ooops, forgot that point Tom, thanks.

Any account/s you have in Switzerland though where the individual total or aggregate total comes to the equivalent of $10,000 or more has to be reported on a FBAR form. That applies to any other accounts you hold outside of the US too.

runningdeer 10.10.2013 09:43

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by st2lemans (Post 1989323)
Umm, Swiss passports don not show your birthplace, but rather your heimatort/attinenza/lieu d'origine, which is usually NOT the same as your birthplace.

Correct. But beware. The new swiss passports with the chip, which oh so coincidently were demanded by the americans as part of the visa-waiver agreement:msnmad:, have much more information on it than what appears in print.:eek:

In my experience, not only is the heimatort/place of origin there, but the place of birth is also on the chip. It is one of the "fields" one needs to verify when going for a passport renewal.

So when US customs does the swipe, no need to look at the text, and all this info is clearly there for them to see. And having a US place of birth is one of the FATCA indices.

3Wishes 10.10.2013 09:56

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by runningdeer (Post 1993572)
Correct. But beware. The new swiss passports with the chip, which oh so coincidently were demanded by the americans as part of the visa-waiver agreement:msnmad:, have much more information on it than what appears in print.:eek:

In my experience, not only is the heimatort/place of origin there, but the place of birth is also on the chip. It is one of the "fields" one needs to verify when going for a passport renewal.

So when US customs does the swipe, no need to look at the text, and all this info is clearly there for them to see. And having a US place of birth is one of the FATCA indices.

That's interesting...but what if you were born in the U.S. and have since renounced or relinquished? Your birthplace would still be on the chip, I suppose, but you would not be required to deal with FATCA (I hope)!

runningdeer 10.10.2013 11:47

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 3Wishes (Post 1993578)
That's interesting...but what if you were born in the U.S. and have since renounced or relinquished? Your birthplace would still be on the chip, I suppose, but you would not be required to deal with FATCA (I hope)!

That's why IBS and others advise you always carry your CNL especially when travelling to the US. And why Medea and others present the CNL to their banks.

The CNL is the new ticket to freedom instead of the doomed little blue book:D

Medea Fleecestealer 10.10.2013 11:52

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by runningdeer (Post 1993708)
That's why IBS and others advise you always carry your CNL especially when travelling to the US. And why Medea and others present the CNL to their banks.

The CNL is the new ticket to freedom instead of the doomed little blue book:D

Or at least a copy of it. I wouldn't travel with the original I don't think. Keep it in a safe place. A copy should do for the border control as they can check the info on their computers. I already have a copy kept with my British passport. :D

Sliced 12.10.2013 11:43

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brusch (Post 1990211)
I presume we are talking 2nd Pillar here. This would indeed be a worrying development, however a little weird since the IGA signed with Switzerland (hope it gets rejected in the possible upcoming referendum anyway) exempts Pension Funds from having to comply with FATCA reporting requirements.

Well I have been turned down by three Banks now.. and yes this is my 2nd Pillar retirement money.. not sure what to do yet, am waiting on another Banks answer for a week now. They just don't want anything to do with a U.S. conection.. even though I am a duel Citizen seems as I have no right under my citzienship here to open a retirement account?? Also on another note my Visa card I had for 15 years was canceled also last month for same reason here.. The pensionkasse said they can pay the money into my normal account but hey it's my pension.

DuePonte 12.10.2013 13:03

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sliced (Post 1995194)
Well I have been turned down by three Banks now.. and yes this is my 2nd Pillar retirement money.. not sure what to do yet, am waiting on another Banks answer for a week now. They just don't want anything to do with a U.S. conection.. even though I am a duel Citizen seems as I have no right under my citzienship here to open a retirement account?? Also on another note my Visa card I had for 15 years was canceled also last month for same reason here.. The pensionkasse said they can pay the money into my normal account but hey it's my pension.

An American who used to work for my employer was able to move her Säule 2 pension funds to the government-sponsored Auffangeinrichtung. As I understand it, your former employer will need to contact the Auffangeinrichtung to set up the FZK account, i.e., you cannot do this directly:

http://www.chaeis.net/en/stiftung-au...htung-bvg.html

Also, the FATCA IGA with Switzerland specifically exempts this institution from FATCA reporting.

Good luck!

swissnyc 13.10.2013 00:17

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Does it also exempts it from being reported on the FBAR forms?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuePonte (Post 1995299)
Also, the FATCA IGA with Switzerland specifically exempts this institution from FATCA reporting.


DuePonte 13.10.2013 13:58

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by swissnyc (Post 1995677)
Does it also exempts it from being reported on the FBAR forms?

An interesting question.
1) The FATCA Agreement between the US and Switzerland does not address FBAR.
2) The list of exempted financial institutions and instruments is on pp. 29-30 of the FATCA Agreement, which can be located as a .pdf by searching on "fatca agreement switzerland" in the internet.
3) Many consider Säule II pension fund assets to not be reportable on the FBAR because the taxpayer has no control over them. One might also view pension assets held at the Auffangeinrichtung in a Freizügigkeitskonto, which came from a Säule II, in the same way. The funds would normally have been transferred there via a trustee to trustee arrangement and so the individual has no access or control to them.
4) Finally, since there is no FATCA reporting of Säule II (as well as Säule III) pension assets, why bother the IRS with this useless information.

From what I can determine, the Auffangeinrichtung does not request the nationality of the individuals placing their pension assets with it.

MrsPractical 17.12.2013 20:18

PostFinance requiring W-9 (Taxpayer ID) from US customers??
 
PostFinance is requiring me to fill out a W-9 form (request for taxpayer ID). I am a US citizen living in Switzerland.

Are all other US customers with PostFinance accounts having the same experience?

If so, how are you responding?


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