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-   -   Credit suisse & PostFinance - W9 form and waiver forms (https://www.englishforum.ch/finance-banking-taxation/189183-credit-suisse-postfinance-w9-form-waiver-forms.html)

dathrilla 03.10.2013 15:56

Credit suisse & PostFinance - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Hi,

As an American student (Dual national) in CH, I have a student account with CS and have never worked in CH. They asked me to fill out the forms and send it ;otherwise, my account will be closed.

What does Congress want from a broke student that has 50 CHF in his account??

Unbelievable.

3Wishes 03.10.2013 16:02

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
The tens of millions you're hiding from them in your other account, no? ;):D See this long-running thread for all kinds of stories (there are others too, but this is the most popular lately).

http://www.englishforum.ch/finance-b...xperience.html

dathrilla 03.10.2013 16:03

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Thanks!

I don't know what to do...

3Wishes 03.10.2013 16:12

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
A few options:

1 - Ignore and let the account be closed. Note that if you want an account anywhere else they'll require the same forms. :(

2 - Sign the forms and send them back. It's annoying and stupid and invasive and a dozen other things I can think of, but as you have nothing to hide it's not THAT big of a deal. Just keep your account balances low, report on taxes as required, etc. What I hate is the principle of it - that I have to waive my rights under Swiss law (where I live, and therefore the laws that should apply) in order to comply with U.S. law.

3 - If you're a dual citizen, consider if it's worthwhile for you to keep the blue passport. I have no other citizenship options, so my choices were only 1 or 2.

Corbets 03.10.2013 16:17

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dathrilla (Post 1988481)
Hi,

As an American student (Dual national) in CH, I have a student account with CS and have never worked in CH. They asked me to fill out the forms and send it ;otherwise, my account will be closed.

What does Congress want from a broke student that has 50 CHF in his account??

Unbelievable.

Congres doesn't want anything from you - yet. They will want a fair bit in a couple years, but that's an aside. The key point is that they're forcing the banks to go through a lot of annoying processes in order to identify Americans who *might* have untaxed money hidden somewhere.

Oh, and it gets worse - when I attempted to open a new account with CS at the end of 2012, they told me I needed to have a tax accountant certify that I had paid my American taxes within one year. Keep in mind, it can cost upwards of 3 grand to have your expat taxes done professionally. I decided to keep my other account instead.

dathrilla 03.10.2013 16:28

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 3Wishes (Post 1988500)
A few options:

1 - Ignore and let the account be closed. Note that if you want an account anywhere else they'll require the same forms. :(

2 - Sign the forms and send them back. It's annoying and stupid and invasive and a dozen other things I can think of, but as you have nothing to hide it's not THAT big of a deal. Just keep your account balances low, report on taxes as required, etc. What I hate is the principle of it - that I have to waive my rights under Swiss law (where I live, and therefore the laws that should apply) in order to comply with U.S. law.

3 - If you're a dual citizen, consider if it's worthwhile for you to keep the blue passport. I have no other citizenship options, so my choices were only 1 or 2.

Regarding option number 2, Does the waiver solely apply to CS or will the IRS have access to any other potential bank accounts in my name in CH?

st2lemans 03.10.2013 16:35

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dathrilla (Post 1988521)
Regarding option number 2, Does the waiver solely apply to CS or will the IRS have access to any other potential bank accounts in my name in CH?

All accounts, anywhere on the planet. :eek:

Tom

dathrilla 03.10.2013 16:38

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by st2lemans (Post 1988527)
All accounts, anywhere on the planet. :eek:

Tom

But the waiver form only mentions "Bank" (CS) and the signatories would be me and CS.

Shorrick Mk2 03.10.2013 16:41

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dathrilla (Post 1988534)
But the waiver form only mentions "Bank" (CS) and the signatories would be me and CS.

Correct, but any bank you have an account with will eventually have you sign that document as well.

st2lemans 03.10.2013 17:23

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorrick Mk2 (Post 1988540)
Correct, but any bank you have an account with will eventually have you sign that document as well.

And soon it won't matter anymore, they'll just give the info to the IRS without you signing anything! :msnmad:

Tom

dathrilla 04.10.2013 11:00

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorrick Mk2 (Post 1988540)
Correct, but any bank you have an account with will eventually have you sign that document as well.

After my own comprehensive research, this is what I have found :

you must NOT file a return for 2012 if your gross income from worldwide sources is under 9'750 USD (can range until 21'800 USD, depending on age, sex, marital status) annually. In conclusion, you are not even required to fill out a Federal tax form!

I am genuinely surprised none of our "competent" EFers has pointed this out before!

mcbuddah 04.10.2013 11:11

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
I filled this out this week. In the letter that came with the form, it was clearly stated that if I didn't complete the form they would close my account. My employer requires a Swiss bank account to send my salary to. So it seemed my hands are tied. I assume if I didn't comply and they closed the account that all the other banks would have the same requirements.

anowheels 04.10.2013 11:50

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dathrilla (Post 1989037)
After my own comprehensive research, this is what I have found :

you must NOT file a return for 2012 if your gross income from worldwide sources is under 9'750 USD (can range until 21'800 USD, depending on age, sex, marital status) annually. In conclusion, you are not even required to fill out a Federal tax form!

I am genuinely surprised none of our "competent" EFers has pointed this out before!

Yes, but you do have to send in an FBAR if you have, aggregate, more than $10,000 in any foreign financial accounts at any time during the year. Filling out a tax return is not relevant to what we're talking about.
http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-...Accounts-(FBAR)

runningdeer 04.10.2013 12:15

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dathrilla (Post 1989037)
After my own comprehensive research, this is what I have found :

you must NOT file a return for 2012 if your gross income from worldwide sources is under 9'750 USD (can range until 21'800 USD, depending on age, sex, marital status) annually. In conclusion, you are not even required to fill out a Federal tax form!

I am genuinely surprised none of our "competent" EFers has pointed this out before!

Being required or not to fill out a tax form has nothing to do with FATCA compliance.

Medea Fleecestealer 04.10.2013 12:49

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by runningdeer (Post 1989102)
Being required or not to fill out a tax form has nothing to do with FATCA compliance.

No, it doesn't. Banks are being required to report all their US clients, no matter whether they need to file or not. Neither the IRS, US government nor banks care whether you don't need to file; they want your info and FATCA is the means to get it.

mcbuddah, yes that is the case. It's actually part of the FATCA regs that an account must be closed if you don't comply iirc. So all banks are going to require a W-9, unless you take the step to renounce your US citizenship.

Olstand 04.10.2013 13:19

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

So all banks are going to require a W-9, unless you take the step to renounce your US citizenship.
Or they just tell you that you can't have an account with them, period.

So does FACTA even target small, local banks?? Or are these the ones that are running scared and denying accounts without evening mentioning the form?

runningdeer 04.10.2013 13:27

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Olstand (Post 1989151)

So does FACTA even target small, local banks??



If you read up on the FATCA law, regs., etc.. it is because they don't have to target, it is done by design. FATCA compliant banks, i.e. UBS, are denied being intermediaries or doing business with non-FATCA banks. Thus, the options are made pretty clear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olstand (Post 1989151)
Or are these the ones that are running scared and denying accounts without evening mentioning the form?

Generally they've already axed the americans, too dificult and costly to comply. Easier to shut the door than do all the paperwork.

dathrilla 04.10.2013 14:48

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by anowheels (Post 1989089)
Yes, but you do have to send in an FBAR if you have, aggregate, more than $10,000 in any foreign financial accounts at any time during the year. Filling out a tax return is not relevant to what we're talking about.
http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-...Accounts-(FBAR)

Correct. However, Credit Suisse doesn't require you to send in an FBAR.

Medea Fleecestealer 04.10.2013 15:04

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dathrilla (Post 1989222)
Correct. However, Credit Suisse doesn't require you to send in an FBAR.

No, the US government/IRS does if any or all accounts reach the $10,000 aggregate figure. And that applies even if you don't need to file a tax return.

I've just renounced earlier this year and have no income to file. However, the joint accounts I share with my OH required back filing of FBAR's and I will need to file a partial FBAR next year, along with my 8854 form. I managed to renounce just before UBS sent me the W-9 form.

The point is, whether you need to file any tax forms of any kind for the IRS/US government or not, to get/keep a bank account here as a US citizen you either have to sign a W-9 or renounce. It's that simple. Utterly stupid, crazy, mad, but that's the choice. Nothing else is possible if you want a Swiss bank account.

3Wishes 04.10.2013 15:08

Re: Credit suisse - W9 form and waiver forms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dathrilla (Post 1989037)
After my own comprehensive research, this is what I have found :

you must NOT file a return for 2012 if your gross income from worldwide sources is under 9'750 USD (can range until 21'800 USD, depending on age, sex, marital status) annually. In conclusion, you are not even required to fill out a Federal tax form!

I am genuinely surprised none of our "competent" EFers has pointed this out before!

Addressing this specific post for a moment - The way you write it, it comes across as a mandate not to file taxes if your income is under a certain level. That's not the case. You can file anyway, and I do. Why? Because if I don't give them any information, they'll go hunting for something that's not there and possibly make stuff up. It takes me no time to fill out the form and mail it, and then there are no back-records for me to fill out if I ever decide to give up the blue passport. Now, for those who do have high enough income, and other assets or investments, the tax paperwork can be a nightmare. I am SO thankful my husband and I opted to keep everything separate from the get-go. It has saved us a lot of headaches.

Now back to the bigger picture - As others have pointed out, this file vs. not file issue isn't directly related to FATCA. FATCA is about reporting assets that exist anywhere on the planet, regardless of whether those count as taxable income. It's this law that the banks are scared of. It's why they are requiring every American customer, regardless of whether said customer has a penny or a billion in the bank, to waive privacy under Swiss law and to allow the account information to be disclosed to the IRS.


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