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Old 14.05.2014, 20:26
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Do I need a rental agreement as proof of address for income tax.

Hi,

I have been offered a new job in St gallen. My wife is a public servant in Konstanz Germany and has an apartment there. How can I continue to live in germany without paying higher taxes there? Do I need to rent an apartment in swiss of would a WG contract be enough. Could I take a short term lease for 1-2 months and continue to use this address for tax purpose. I also know some people living in zurich. Could I just give their address as mine with their permission. Do I also need this rental agreement as proof when opening a bank account? Thanks for your help !!!
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Old 14.05.2014, 20:33
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Re: Do I need a rental agreement as proof of address for income tax.

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Hi,

I have been offered a new job in St gallen. My wife is a public servant in Konstanz Germany and has an apartment there. How can I continue to live in germany without paying higher taxes there? Do I need to rent an apartment in swiss of would a WG contract be enough. Could I take a short term lease for 1-2 months and continue to use this address for tax purpose. I also know some people living in zurich. Could I just give their address as mine with their permission. Do I also need this rental agreement as proof when opening a bank account? Thanks for your help !!!
You will need a registered address in CH, a WG would work if you stay there a fair bit, if not what your planning is Tax evasion, the Germans's treat this worse than the Swiss
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Old 14.05.2014, 20:52
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Re: Do I need a rental agreement as proof of address for income tax.

Also your Swiss permit requires that you actually live in Switzerland most of the time so simply having an address here while continuing to live in Germany isn't allowed.

Have you investigated the possibility of your Swiss permit being made a "G" (Cross border) permit?

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm...g_eu_efta.html

That might work better for you on the tax side of things?
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Old 14.05.2014, 21:18
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Re: Do I need a rental agreement as proof of address for income tax.

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Also your Swiss permit requires that you actually live in Switzerland most of the time so simply having an address here while continuing to live in Germany isn't allowed.

Have you investigated the possibility of your Swiss permit being made a "G" (Cross border) permit?

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm...g_eu_efta.html

That might work better for you on the tax side of things?

Thank you for replies. If I go ahead and apply for swiss cross border permit would I be liable to pay tax in Germany also? The other option I am thinking is to move to CH with my wife and she will commute. As far as Im aware she would have to pay double tax in both countries for first 5 years as a public servant in Germany. From my search for apartments the rent it is double or 3 times more expensive on the swiss side of the boarder. With higher cost of living and rent I think it would cancel out any tax benifits. If she continues to live in konstanz and I stay in a WG in st gallen 2-3 nights a week. Do you think this will keep the tax man happy?
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Old 14.05.2014, 21:32
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Re: Do I need a rental agreement as proof of address for income tax.

Nope, because you have to be registered for residency and tax purposes where you spend the majority of your time. Win some, lose some- nobody can have it all. Where do you intend to pay for health insurance? If you are resident in CH for tax purposes and where your residence is, you have to pay into the Swiss system.
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Old 14.05.2014, 21:36
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Re: Do I need a rental agreement as proof of address for income tax.

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Thank you for replies. If I go ahead and apply for swiss cross border permit would I be liable to pay tax in Germany also? The other option I am thinking is to move to CH with my wife and she will commute. As far as Im aware she would have to pay double tax in both countries for first 5 years as a public servant in Germany. From my search for apartments the rent it is double or 3 times more expensive on the swiss side of the boarder. With higher cost of living and rent I think it would cancel out any tax benifits. If she continues to live in konstanz and I stay in a WG in st gallen 2-3 nights a week. Do you think this will keep the tax man happy?
If your living in the WG it will be fine, nobody will care. If you have a Swiss registered car the. Zoll might be a pain, as the asked me why I was crossing the border 3 times a week & I never had any meat in my shopping. I replied I eat & have hot sex with a German girl so no need to smuggle meat into CH. I never got stopped again after that

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Nope, because you have to be registered for residency and tax purposes where you spend the majority of your time. Win some, lose some- nobody can have it all. Where do you intend to pay for health insurance? If you are resident in CH for tax purposes and where your residence is, you have to pay into the Swiss system.
I move about for work on a daily basis, I pay tax where I have a bed, an apartment & can receive mail. The days of sleeping in the same place 300+ days a year are a dream to many people today.
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Old 14.05.2014, 21:54
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Re: Do I need a rental agreement as proof of address for income tax.

OP will be working in one place, for one firm- not moving around. So he needs to register where he is going to live most of the time, and pay tax there, no?

We've had several cases here, as we are a frontalier area- which were required to clarify their situation and make a definite choice, based on where they live (eg sleep) most of the time. Perhaps a bit different in Geneva area, where frontaliers pay tax in Geneva. Here frontaliers pay tax in France, with a very small proportion paid back to the Swiss Commune where they work- so if someone actually LIVE here, their tax will be paid here in full, not just small proportion.

Last edited by Odile; 14.05.2014 at 22:07.
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Old 14.05.2014, 21:58
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Re: Do I need a rental agreement as proof of address for income tax.

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OP will be working in one place, for one firm- not moving around. So he needs to register where he is going to lvie most of the time, and pay tax there, no?
Well if the WG is near work & he goes home for lunch every day, I don't think they could say a word TBH.
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Old 14.05.2014, 22:48
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Re: Do I need a rental agreement as proof of address for income tax.

We strongly considered a move to Germany once. We called the financial department of each area we were looking at and asked them what the tax situation would be, and how we would pay tax if my husband had an apartment, etc.
Each person answered our questions completely, and came back with our tax rates. Nobody took our questions as leading to tax evasion, or anything even close.
On the contrary they were incredibly helpful, and I have to say we did worry about calling because it does seem a bit odd to ask such direct questions and they obviously know why one is asking.
The departments were always listed on the village homepage.
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Old 14.05.2014, 22:53
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Re: Do I need a rental agreement as proof of address for income tax.

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We strongly considered a move to Germany once. We called the financial department of each area we were looking at and asked them what the tax situation would be, and how we would pay tax if my husband had an apartment, etc.
Each person answered our questions completely, and came back with our tax rates. Nobody took our questions as leading to tax evasion, or anything even close.
On the contrary they were incredibly helpful, and I have to say we did worry about calling because it does seem a bit odd to ask such direct questions and they obviously know why one is asking.
The departments were always listed on the village homepage.
Your questions & what the OP is considering is something else.
You OP is hoping to pretend to live somewhere where he has no apartment just because the tax rate is lower.
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Old 14.05.2014, 23:00
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Re: Do I need a rental agreement as proof of address for income tax.

I was just ignoring that and focusing on the more legitimate ideas in the next post. I am sure he will come around to the legit side.
The worry of getting busted all the time just wouldn't be worth the bother of it all.
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Old 14.05.2014, 23:06
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Re: Do I need a rental agreement as proof of address for income tax.

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Here frontaliers pay tax in France, with a very small proportion paid back to the Swiss Commune where they work.
Meanwhile, here it's the opposite.

They pay taxes here, with a small percentage kicked back to Italy, and no taxes to pay back home.

Tom
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Old 14.05.2014, 23:26
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Re: Do I need a rental agreement as proof of address for income tax.

I think even if he is officially resident in Switzerland, the German Finanzamt will bump the taxes the wife pays due to progression taxes - as a couple they will not pay tax on his income in Switzerland, but she will pay a higher tax rate on her salary.
And he will have to pay Swiss health insurance (not sure how it would work out with a Swiss salary and resident in Germany, because they usually deduct the German Krankenkasse directly from salary for employees - so maybe he would actually have to pay private insurance in Germany anyway or not have coverage).

I think however that because they will be renting the house in Switzerland she can put this as a double housing expense in her German tax return, which is actually a rather generous deduction.
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Old 15.05.2014, 01:43
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Thanks agian for your replies,
I thought a had to get health insurance in CH. Would I need a separate health insurance in Germany. I like the idea of getting a WG near work that I could use on a daily basis. Our car would continue to be registered in Germany as I will be commuting to work on the train. I am also not sure if I would be paying tax as a single in CH being newly married. I dont see how my wife would have to pay a higher rate of tax in Germany if I am working and have a residence in CH

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Also your Swiss permit requires that you actually live in Switzerland most of the time so simply having an address here while continuing to live in Germany isn't allowed.

Have you investigated the possibility of your Swiss permit being made a "G" (Cross border) permit?

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm...g_eu_efta.html

That might work better for you on the tax side of things?
I have been looking at the website cheers and from what I see if
staying away for more than 60 working days per calendar year for job-related reasons. I could have my taxes paid in CH.
http://www.baselarea.ch/uploads/medi...rs_0512_01.pdf

Maybe I need to contact a professional , Any suggestion on offices to contact?
Cheers

Last edited by 3Wishes; 16.05.2014 at 00:17. Reason: merging successive posts
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Old 15.05.2014, 18:45
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Re: Do I need a rental agreement as proof of address for income tax.

If the car is registered to you, you will need to change the plates after max 1 year, your driving licence too (this regardless of car registration).
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Old 15.05.2014, 19:03
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Re: Do I need a rental agreement as proof of address for income tax.

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If the car is registered to you, you will need to change the plates after max 1 year, your driving licence too (this regardless of car registration).
Only if the OP wants to drive the car in CH does it need changing, if it is changed it can't be used by a German resident in Germany.
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Old 15.05.2014, 19:09
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Re: Do I need a rental agreement as proof of address for income tax.

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Only if the OP wants to drive the car in CH does it need changing, if it is changed it can't be used by a German resident in Germany.
If OP is no longer a German resident, can he keep a car registered in his name in Germany? And even when he has a Swiss licence only?

I thought now but may be wrong
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Old 15.05.2014, 19:29
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Re: Do I need a rental agreement as proof of address for income tax.

The car would be registered under my wifes name who is reaming a resident in germany. I wonder will i have any problems with insurance if my residency is in CH?
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Old 15.05.2014, 19:33
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Re: Do I need a rental agreement as proof of address for income tax.

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Only if the OP wants to drive the car in CH does it need changing, if it is changed it can't be used by a German resident in Germany.
Actually, as long as he declares it, and only makes short trips, and not more than 12x/year, then he can in fact drive it here.

Tom
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