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  #21  
Old 30.07.2014, 11:43
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Re: Do US-CH treaty tie breaker rules exempt green card holders from us tax?

(TL;DR - Pay the fines or get a lawyer. It's a crappy situation to be in, to be sure, but you're definitely skirting a crazy corner case that is probably going to get very legal to resolve it.)

I thought that if you lived outside of the United States for 180 consecutive days, you were no longer considered "resident" and, as such, would have to legally give up the GC. (Anecdotes here and here (No affiliation to me; just quick Goog searches.)) I, of course, know people who regularly flaunt that law and, so long as taxes are filed and a local US address is used for filing, the IRS tends to look the other way. However, there may be some way to "invalidate" the Green Card retroactively, which may help your situation.
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  #22  
Old 30.07.2014, 12:29
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Re: Do US-CH treaty tie breaker rules exempt green card holders from us tax?

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(TL;DR - Pay the fines or get a lawyer. It's a crappy situation to be in, to be sure, but you're definitely skirting a crazy corner case that is probably going to get very legal to resolve it.)

I thought that if you lived outside of the United States for 180 consecutive days, you were no longer considered "resident" and, as such, would have to legally give up the GC. (Anecdotes here and here (No affiliation to me; just quick Goog searches.)) I, of course, know people who regularly flaunt that law and, so long as taxes are filed and a local US address is used for filing, the IRS tends to look the other way. However, there may be some way to "invalidate" the Green Card retroactively, which may help your situation.
You can apply to keep the card if you're going to be outside the US.

http://www.familytousa.com/reentry-permit/

To officially give up your Green Card you have to turn it in at a US embassy/consulate using a I-407 form. You can do this by either visiting the embassy/consulate or by mailing it, depending on the individual embassy/consulate rules. You should get a copy of the completed form as it's the only way to prove that you've given up the Green Card.
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  #23  
Old 30.07.2014, 15:49
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Re: Do US-CH treaty tie breaker rules exempt green card holders from us tax?

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You can apply to keep the card if you're going to be outside the US.

http://www.familytousa.com/reentry-permit/

To officially give up your Green Card you have to turn it in at a US embassy/consulate using a I-407 form. You can do this by either visiting the embassy/consulate or by mailing it, depending on the individual embassy/consulate rules. You should get a copy of the completed form as it's the only way to prove that you've given up the Green Card.
Learn something new every day! Cheers for this; I'll consider myself a wee bit more enlightened.
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  #24  
Old 04.08.2014, 21:55
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Re: Do US-CH treaty tie breaker rules exempt green card holders from us tax?

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green cards don't lapse as far as I understand it and remain valid if you're in good standing with the IRS et al.

so the OP.....and his green card......have issues. I assume you have declared to your bank that you still have a green card? They WILL be interested.

I know someone who had a green card but had not filed taxes for 2-3 years since leaving the US and taking up residence in Switzerland. The green card was taken at LAX - it was that or submit those missing tax returns to the IRS right there, right then.

So not getting rid of the green card has put you in a world of hurt in my opinion. Have you tried speaking to someone qualified to help you? Like an accountant skilled in this area or the US authorities?
Which US authorities do you mean? The IRS? Or are there other authorities? As I understand I could probably file a petition to ustaxcourt.gov.
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Old 23.09.2015, 20:48
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Re: Do US-CH treaty tie breaker rules exempt green card holders from us tax?

The final answer to my question is yes. I have it black on white from the IRS after an official inquiry made by the Swiss Secretariat for International Financial Matters. I do not have to pay US taxes when I live in Switzerland and do not have US income.

Yes: US-CH treaty tie breaker rules exempt green card holders from us tax.
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Old 21.03.2016, 19:05
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Re: Do US-CH treaty tie breaker rules exempt green card holders from us tax?

Has anybody else been successful with this?
I would really like to hear the details.
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Old 30.03.2016, 16:31
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Re: Do US-CH treaty tie breaker rules exempt green card holders from us tax?

Which details are you interested in?
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Old 30.03.2016, 17:03
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Re: Do US-CH treaty tie breaker rules exempt green card holders from us tax?

Fred,
I will send you a PM is this okay?
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  #29  
Old 30.03.2016, 18:47
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Re: Do US-CH treaty tie breaker rules exempt green card holders from us tax?

I got my GC in 1999 and after visiting the states for a few months I moved to Switzerland.

In 2014 I read about the tax implications for green card holders and somewhere I found a link to the US-Swiss tax treaty excluding the GC holders from tax in the state they do not live and work.

So I filed the I-407 in May 2014 and at the same time my income tax forms for the last 5 years with f1040nr, f8833 and f8938 and FBAR online form f9022-1 which I had filled out without any help as good as I could.

After two months I got a response from IRS with an high amount due per year stating that they do not accept the tie breaker rules.

This let me ask some lawyers and CPAs specialized in US-Swiss tax matters. Four of them were sure the tie breaker rules would not apply. One of the other two sent a letter to the IRS asking for the reason of not accepting the tie breaker which was never answered just as the letters I had written on my own. Also I let a CPA from Ireland (Richard Dunn, which was supporting my tie breaker strategy) overview and correct my form f8833 and sent it to the IRS in November 2014.

In September 2014 I had already contacted the SIF (info@sif.admin.ch) sending all necessary information in some letters (the last one in February 2015) and in March 2015 I got an answer from the IRS that they corrected my owed tax to zero.

So at the end I am not sure if it was a slightly corrected f8833 or the SIF getting me out of trouble.

Last edited by fred15; 30.03.2016 at 19:17. Reason: correction
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Old 30.03.2016, 19:04
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Re: Do US-CH treaty tie breaker rules exempt green card holders from us tax?

One thing you have to keep in mind is the "expatriation tax". To get really rid of your GC you will need to eventually fill out f8854 and send it to 2 IRS addresses and if you own more than 2 millon US$ you need to clearify if you need to pay expatriation tax. That was the first time in life I was happy being poor as a church mouse.

Last edited by fred15; 30.03.2016 at 19:37. Reason: wrong form nr
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Old 23.11.2016, 01:55
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Re: Do US-CH treaty tie breaker rules exempt green card holders from us tax?

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The final answer to my question is yes. I have it black on white from the IRS after an official inquiry made by the Swiss Secretariat for International Financial Matters. I do not have to pay US taxes when I live in Switzerland and do not have US income.

Yes: US-CH treaty tie breaker rules exempt green card holders from us tax.
@fred15: can you please share the redacted contents of the letter from the SIF to the IRS?

thank you!
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