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  #41  
Old 13.10.2016, 18:26
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Re: Harassement by Intrum Justitia

I am going to revive this post as we just received a letter and demand for payment from Intrum Justitia.

Here is the situation in our case : back in April, my husband took out a new phone contract with Salt. However, once back home he wasn't able to activate his SIM card despite several calls to Salt. He went back to the store and they told him that they found no record of his contract, so they set up a new one.

This afternoon we got a letter from Intrum Justitia claiming 1330 CHF for Salt plus various fees for a grand total of 1684 CHF. The letter was dated October 7 and said we had five days to pay, and we are already six days later. I panicked because we are in the process of renewing our Permis and I was terrified that this would count as a "pursuite" and block the process somehow. My husband also tried to contest a parking ticket once and ended up with a bill for three times the initial amount. We've learned that in Switzerland it's better to shut up and pay up. So I logged into PostFinance and paid it.

In the mean time my husband ran over to Salt and found out that the charges were related to the mystery contract from April. The 1330 CHF was the equivalent of several months of the phone contract plus 2 x 500 CHF in late fees (WTF Switzerland????? How can anyone charge that much in late fees after only a few months???).

This is obviously completely and totally Salt's fault. I expect that they will eventually reimburse us the initial charges, but what are the chances we'll get anything back for the 350 CHF in fees we paid to Intrum Juditia? Probably nil, I expect.

At any rate, with regards to the original post, it appears that companies use IJ when they want to collect money from someone and don't have the address. One of the fees on the bill was for the address search.
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  #42  
Old 13.10.2016, 23:41
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Re: Harassement by Intrum Justitia

Some Google results for "Intrum Justitia" Salt and/or "Intrum Justitia":

Never open a plan with the Salt Mobile company
SALT-ORANGE... Coup de gueule sur des pratiques scandaleuses !
Question about Intrum Justitia
Intrum Justitia
Forum: facture de intrum justitia
Les fausses factures ça marche ?
Intrum Justitia: So wehren Sie sich!
Inkasso-Albtraum: Geldeintreiber bedrängt Unbescholtene

And for "Intrum Justitia" Ricardo:

Ricardo drohnt mit Inkassobüro
Ricardo.ch.... des gros malhonnêtes!!!
Inkasso trotz bezahlter Rechnung
Geldeintreiber: In den Mühlen der Justitia
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  #43  
Old 14.10.2016, 09:06
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Re: Harassement by Intrum Justitia

We had a guy from IJ on the forum a few weeks back, I´ll give him this, he did try and explain the machinations of IJ in a clear manner, it was delightful but almost painful to see how he was slowly torn to pieces.
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  #44  
Old 14.10.2016, 09:23
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Re: Harassement by Intrum Justitia

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We had a guy from IJ on the forum a few weeks back, I´ll give him this, he did try and explain the machinations of IJ in a clear manner, it was delightful but almost painful to see how he was slowly torn to pieces.
Link to thread please?

I wish I had known all this a few years ago when I got stung.
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  #45  
Old 14.10.2016, 10:01
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Re: Harassement by Intrum Justitia

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Link to thread please?

I wish I had known all this a few years ago when I got stung.
See here.
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  #46  
Old 14.10.2016, 10:03
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Re: Harassement by Intrum Justitia

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Link to thread please?

I wish I had known all this a few years ago when I got stung.
https://www.englishforum.ch/finance-...tion-help.html
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  #47  
Old 14.10.2016, 20:27
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Re: Harassement by Intrum Justitia

Thanks for the link to the other post! This is indeed the impression that I had from the beginning : once the initial company has transferred the file to IJ, there's no going back. IJ considers that it has provided a service in finding our address and sending us a menacing letter, and it intends to be paid for its service. It seemed better to pay up and ask questions later, hoping that we will recoup some if not all of our costs. I hope to get something from SALT but I imagine that the 350 CHF in fees charged by IJ is lost.

I find that Switzerland is so tough for these sorts of things. Even if there's been a mistake or wrongdoing, the consequences are HUGE if you don't pay things on time. It was one of the first things we learned when we moved here. At the beginning of the year I got a 50 CHF charge for paying my phone bill one month late. I called SALT to explain that my newborn daughter had to have heart surgery and I didn't leave the hospital for five weeks, but got zero sympathy and the 50 CHF fee stayed put.

It's all a part of my love/hate relationship with Switzerland, I guess
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  #48  
Old 14.10.2016, 21:27
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Re: Harassement by Intrum Justitia

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Thanks for the link to the other post! This is indeed the impression that I had from the beginning : once the initial company has transferred the file to IJ, there's no going back. IJ considers that it has provided a service in finding our address and sending us a menacing letter, and it intends to be paid for its service. It seemed better to pay up and ask questions later, hoping that we will recoup some if not all of our costs. I hope to get something from SALT but I imagine that the 350 CHF in fees charged by IJ is lost.

I find that Switzerland is so tough for these sorts of things. Even if there's been a mistake or wrongdoing, the consequences are HUGE if you don't pay things on time. It was one of the first things we learned when we moved here. At the beginning of the year I got a 50 CHF charge for paying my phone bill one month late. I called SALT to explain that my newborn daughter had to have heart surgery and I didn't leave the hospital for five weeks, but got zero sympathy and the 50 CHF fee stayed put.

It's all a part of my love/hate relationship with Switzerland, I guess
This is the way IJ works - it relies on intimidation and the fact that here people are more likely to pay first and ask questions later. You won't get any money back from them - as far as it's concerned, it's provided a service to Salt for which you have to pay. It's illegal for it to pass on the fees, but apparently it can operate with impunity in Switzerland.

It is still chasing me for CHF 95 in charges for a DHL invoice of CHF 30, which was paid with interest two years ago. It never goes beyond intimidating letters, as to take out a betreibung would a) cost it money and b) would not stand up legally.
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  #49  
Old 14.10.2016, 21:36
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Re: Harassement by Intrum Justitia

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At any rate, with regards to the original post, it appears that companies use IJ when they want to collect money from someone and don't have the address. One of the fees on the bill was for the address search.
Surely that can't be right. Salt would have had your address, no? It's almost impossible for a company not to have someone's address if they've placed an order.
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  #50  
Old 16.10.2016, 01:14
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Re: Harassement by Intrum Justitia

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Some Google results for "Intrum Justitia" Salt and/or "Intrum Justitia":
Thanks for those links.

The more I read of individual cases the more I am convinced that the real con here is persuading you to pay bills from telcos and other dodgy companies which wouldn't stand up in a court of law.

You either pay IJ's ludicrous surcharges or contest them, but you still end up paying the original bill, which is either mistaken or even plain fraudulent.
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  #51  
Old 16.10.2016, 03:57
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Re: Harassement by Intrum Justitia

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It is still chasing me for CHF 95 in charges for a DHL invoice of CHF 30, which was paid with interest two years ago. It never goes beyond intimidating letters, as to take out a betreibung would a) cost it money and b) would not stand up legally.
Perhaps react, pointing them to the illegality of using coercion (Strafgesetzbuch art. 181) and reserving the right for you to take legal action unless they stop harassing you immediately.
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  #52  
Old 16.10.2016, 11:00
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Re: Harassement by Intrum Justitia

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Perhaps react, pointing them to the illegality of using coercion (Strafgesetzbuch art. 181) and reserving the right for you to take legal action unless they stop harassing you immediately.
Yes, I did that right at the beginning and also asked them to send any further correspondence by registered post. They know what they do is illegal - it's been pointed out ad nauseum over the last few years. What I don't understand is how they are allowed to continue to operate.
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  #53  
Old 16.10.2016, 12:09
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Re: Harassement by Intrum Justitia

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We had a guy from IJ on the forum a few weeks back, I´ll give him this, he did try and explain the machinations of IJ in a clear manner, it was delightful but almost painful to see how he was slowly torn to pieces.
Wish I'd noticed this thread at the time the guy was posting.

I got my solicitor onto Intrum Justitia UK several years ago because they began bombarding me with threatening phone calls one morning.

My ex husband had taken out a credit cards and loan during the last month of the 'financial settlement' part of the divorce proceedings, and had forged my signature as guarantor. By 11am, I'd had four calls from them threatening court proceedings and bailiffs, so I called the soliticor who had handled my divorce. She took great delight in taking them on and called me back an hour later to say that I wouldn't be hearing from them again. She even didn't charge me for her time because she had a huge gripe about how they practice, and enjoyed destroying them too much.
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  #54  
Old 16.10.2016, 15:01
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Re: Harassement by Intrum Justitia

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Yes, I did that right at the beginning and also asked them to send any further correspondence by registered post. They know what they do is illegal - it's been pointed out ad nauseum over the last few years. What I don't understand is how they are allowed to continue to operate.
Did you report them? They won't change their business model unless there are consequences.
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Old 16.10.2016, 15:09
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Re: Harassement by Intrum Justitia

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Did you report them? They won't change their business model unless there are consequences.
My solicitor said it requires a change in financial institute laws that successive governments have been loath to address. She said they make enough money from abusing and exploiting vulnerable people to cover the costs of any court proceedings against them, so the business model continues to thrive.

It's similar to NWNF solicitors. Sometimes, they're worth their weight in gold. Sometimes they're swindling pigs.
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  #56  
Old 16.10.2016, 16:18
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Re: Harassement by Intrum Justitia

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My solicitor said it requires a change in financial institute laws that successive governments have been loath to address. She said they make enough money from abusing and exploiting vulnerable people to cover the costs of any court proceedings against them, so the business model continues to thrive.
Are you talking about the UK financial institute laws or Swiss ones there?
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Old 16.10.2016, 17:02
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Re: Harassement by Intrum Justitia

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Are you talking about the UK financial institute laws or Swiss ones there?
UK because this particular company operates in both countries.
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  #58  
Old 04.02.2017, 01:51
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Re: Harassement by Intrum Justitia

I thought I should update this post to let future readers know that Salt just reimbursed us the entire amount that we paid to Intrum Justitia, including the fees which were charged by IJ (just under 1'700 CHF total).

My husband called and visited Salt and InterDiscount to gather all of the details regarding the contract that he was being charged for (names, dates, numbers, letters sent, addresses, etc.). He sent a letter to Salt by registered mail in December. A couple of weeks ago we got a letter from Salt saying that the number had been activated "in error", that they were "navré", that the file had been withdrawn from IJ, and that he would be reimbursed the full amount paid to IJ. He communicated our IBAN and soon after we had our 1'700 CHF back in our pockets, ouf!! We also got a letter from IJ itself apologising for the error and confirming that the file was closed.

Thankfully our story has a happy ending, but even when I was convinced that we had lost the money, I still didn't regret paying it. When we received the past due notice from IJ (the first letter we'd ever received on the matter), our B permits had expired two weeks prior and we were waiting for news regarding our request for C permits. It wasn't until mid December that we received a letter requesting documents to support our C permit, which we were eventually granted in January. For me there was a risk that IJ would drag us to the Office des Poursuites, given the sum involved and the fact that my husband had signed a contract with Salt (but was never able to activate it). I was not willing to take any risks that would put our C permits in jeopardy, even if it cost us 1'700 CHF.

Obviously our situation was unique and I would not recommend paying IJ in most circumstances. But let it be known that it is possible to recuperate funds that were stolen by Intrum Justitia.
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  #59  
Old 04.02.2017, 10:08
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Re: Harassement by Intrum Justitia

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Surely that can't be right. Salt would have had your address, no? It's almost impossible for a company not to have someone's address if they've placed an order.
My husband eventually found out that, since somehow there was no address in the contract, they'd sent a couple of letters to our old address, which we'd vacated three years prior. It was the address still listed on moneyhouse. When they found our current address the first thing they sent was the final notice ("pay in five days or else!").
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  #60  
Old 04.02.2017, 10:18
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Re: Harassement by Intrum Justitia

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It was the address still listed on moneyhouse.
Moneyhouse gets it's company data from the companies register

If your situation referred to a company, then you urgently need to update your company data at the company registry office.
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