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  #21  
Old 25.12.2014, 12:06
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Re: Question: Tax bill from the Gemeinde for 2014 "Provisorisch" tax

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"Auch die provisorische Rechnung wird trotz ihres vorläufigen Charakters zur Zahlung fällig. Die provisorische Rechnung kann auf Gesuch hin in ihrer Höhe angepasst werden. Das Gesuch ist bei der Finanzverwaltung der Wohnsitzgemeinde einzureichen. Rechtzeitig vor Ablauf der Zahlungsfrist (im September) erhalten die Steuerpflichtigen, die den (provisorischen) Betrag nicht oder nicht voll-ständig bezahlt haben, eine Verfallanzeige.

Die Mahnung der säumigen Steuerpflichtigen erfolgt nach Ablauf der Zahlungsfrist. Nach erfolgloser Mahnung wird die Betreibung eingeleitet.

Erscheint die Bezahlung der Steuer gefährdet, kann die Bezugsbehörde auch für einen nur mutmasslich geschuldeten Betrag jederzeit Sicherstellung verlangen
. Dabei wird eine Sicherstellungs-verfügung erlassen. Gegen die Sicherstellungsverfügung kann innerhalb von 30 Tagen nach Zustel-lung beim Spezialverwaltungsgericht, Abteilung Steuern, Rekurs erhoben werden. Der Rekurs hemmt die Vollstreckung der Sicherstellungsverfügung nicht. Die Sicherstellungsverfügung gilt als Arrestbefehl nach Art. 274 SchKG. Der Arrest wird durch das zuständige Betreibungsamt vollzogen. Die Einsprache gegen den Arrestbefehl nach Art. 278 SchKG ist nicht zulässig."



That is not the case in Aargau, although it may differ by canton. It states here very clearly that even provisional tax estimates are very much enforceable. So unless you have something in writing which indicates that this is not the case (or maybe differs in another canton), I have some doubts about the veracity of your statement.

As a debt has to be proved in Switzerland if you ask, the tax office will not get far with a provisional demand.
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  #22  
Old 25.12.2014, 14:33
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Re: Question: Tax bill from the Gemeinde for 2014 "Provisorisch" tax

Quick question here - on the provisional statement of liability - which we've now paid - there is nothing about federal tax. What is the story there does anyone know ?
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  #23  
Old 25.12.2014, 15:25
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Re: Question: Tax bill from the Gemeinde for 2014 "Provisorisch" tax

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Quick question here - on the provisional statement of liability - which we've now paid - there is nothing about federal tax. What is the story there does anyone know ?
You will receive a bill to pay about March, it will be estimated however a definitive will be sent out after they have seen a tax return.
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Old 25.12.2014, 15:47
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Re: Question: Tax bill from the Gemeinde for 2014 "Provisorisch" tax

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As a debt has to be proved in Switzerland if you ask, the tax office will not get far with a provisional demand.
So everything that is published by the state is BS and they are just talking out of their behinds? You have yet to provide any sources to back up your statements. Care to oblige?
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Old 25.12.2014, 17:19
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Re: Question: Tax bill from the Gemeinde for 2014 "Provisorisch" tax

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So everything that is published by the state is BS and they are just talking out of their behinds? You have yet to provide any sources to back up your statements. Care to oblige?
Well any dispute will be decided by a judge in a court, or don't you understand that?Any claim has to be substantiated. Any tax assessment can be appealed if it's incorrect, been there done that it was very easy.
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Old 25.12.2014, 19:23
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Re: Question: Tax bill from the Gemeinde for 2014 "Provisorisch" tax

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Well any dispute will be decided by a judge in a court, or don't you understand that?Any claim has to be substantiated. Any tax assessment can be appealed if it's incorrect, been there done that it was very easy.
So you are suggesting that the OP ignores the bill and waits until Basel escalates the matter? That makes no sense. If the OP has not had any tax deducted at source, then for 2014 he has not paid any taxes. The provisional was likely based on 2013 tax assessment. If it is wrong, it is always possible to discuss this. In the meantime, the interest penalty will just keep adding up and the possibility of a Betreibung is very real if absolutely no taxes have been paid for 2014.
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Old 26.12.2014, 11:49
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Re: Question: Tax bill from the Gemeinde for 2014 "Provisorisch" tax

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So you are suggesting that the OP ignores the bill and waits until Basel escalates the matter? That makes no sense. If the OP has not had any tax deducted at source, then for 2014 he has not paid any taxes. The provisional was likely based on 2013 tax assessment. If it is wrong, it is always possible to discuss this. In the meantime, the interest penalty will just keep adding up and the possibility of a Betreibung is very real if absolutely no taxes have been paid for 2014.
Absolutely not, if the bill is accurate it should be paid, or a lower amount if a lower amount is owing. Perhaps you have not read what I wrote earlier & repeated, that interest is due on anything not paid if money is owing.

I am just pointing out that the tax authority can only collect any debts that truly exist, they don't have any special power to make you pay more than you should. Having received 2 years running demands for 3 times my liability, I paid the first years in full, then enquired about the second year. I paid nothing extra & received a refund with interest, rather than a Betreibung.

FWIW when I left Switzerland I had estimated my tax liability & paid it in full. When I deregistered I was told I had to pay a 4 figure sum in Cash before leaving. I paid that sum, the tax office has since repaid more than the amount I paid in cash plus interest.
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Old 15.01.2015, 17:07
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Re: Question: Tax bill from the Gemeinde for 2014 "Provisorisch" tax

2014 was my first year on C permit so I'm a bit confused with the bills I'm getting too.

In early 2014 i got a bill for 6K, i think that was the provisional / estimated tax and i paid that straight away. Yesterday I received a bill called Abkontorechnung 2014, where its stated the total tax for 2014 and they have deducted the 6K and i have to pay another 10K asap.

I have two questions about this:

- How can they give me the final tax figure already now? I haven't even done my tax return for 2014 yet.

- Under "Einkommen" its stated a number thats much higher than what i actually earned in 2014 and from what i can see, that number is what they base the tax rate on - so it seems i would be paying too much.

- I also received a bill for the second half of 2013 (i got my c-permit in may 2013) and on that they used the same Einkommen amount as 2014, but i know for sure i didnt earn the same 2013 and 2014 - whats going on here?
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  #29  
Old 15.01.2015, 17:13
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Re: Question: Tax bill from the Gemeinde for 2014 "Provisorisch" tax

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2014 was my first year on C permit so I'm a bit confused with the bills I'm getting too.

In early 2014 i got a bill for 6K, i think that was the provisional / estimated tax and i paid that straight away. Yesterday I received a bill called Abkontorechnung 2014, where its stated the total tax for 2014 and they have deducted the 6K and i have to pay another 10K asap.

I have two questions about this:

- How can they give me the final tax figure already now? I haven't even done my tax return for 2014 yet.

- Under "Einkommen" its stated a number thats much higher than what i actually earned in 2014 and from what i can see, that number is what they base the tax rate on - so it seems i would be paying too much.

- I also received a bill for the second half of 2013 (i got my c-permit in may 2013) and on that they used the same Einkommen amount as 2014, but i know for sure i didnt earn the same 2013 and 2014 - whats going on here?
Do a rough calculation of what you owe & pay that amount. As I said earlier a demand on account is not legally enforceable until the figures have been finally calculated. If you wish to pay the extra 10k thats also fine.
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  #30  
Old 15.01.2015, 17:17
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Re: Question: Tax bill from the Gemeinde for 2014 "Provisorisch" tax

The initial 2014 bill is an estimate based on previous years' data. Normally you pay that first. Once you've filed a tax return and they've finished examining it (takes a while, usually several months in our neck of the woods) they will send you a final statement declaring whether you get a refund or need to pay more.

If your circumstances changed in 2014 and you feel the estimate is out of line, you can always go down to the tax office and they will be happy to recalculate a new estimate for you. Or as FMF says you can just pay the too-high estimate and get a bigger refund (with interest) later.
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Old 15.01.2015, 20:55
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Re: Question: Tax bill from the Gemeinde for 2014 "Provisorisch" tax

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The initial 2014 bill is an estimate based on previous years' data. Normally you pay that first. Once you've filed a tax return and they've finished examining it (takes a while, usually several months in our neck of the woods) they will send you a final statement declaring whether you get a refund or need to pay more.

If your circumstances changed in 2014 and you feel the estimate is out of line, you can always go down to the tax office and they will be happy to recalculate a new estimate for you. Or as FMF says you can just pay the too-high estimate and get a bigger refund (with interest) later.
Ok, but I haven't filed a tax return for 2014 yet so how do they know my final tax amount? Does everyone get this bill beginning of the year for the year before if you've paid in too little? I was expecting to get the final bill / return in november or something for 2014, after they have approved my deductions etc
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Old 15.01.2015, 21:25
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Re: Question: Tax bill from the Gemeinde for 2014 "Provisorisch" tax

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Ok, but I haven't filed a tax return for 2014 yet so how do they know my final tax amount? Does everyone get this bill beginning of the year for the year before if you've paid in too little? I was expecting to get the final bill / return in november or something for 2014, after they have approved my deductions etc
They have guessed an amount, the clue is it's 'Provisional' ! if they are wrong follow what I have said earlier.
Alternatively you could call the tax office, they will tell you the same as I did
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Old 15.01.2015, 21:31
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Re: Question: Tax bill from the Gemeinde for 2014 "Provisorisch" tax

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Ok, but I haven't filed a tax return for 2014 yet so how do they know my final tax amount? Does everyone get this bill beginning of the year for the year before if you've paid in too little? I was expecting to get the final bill / return in november or something for 2014, after they have approved my deductions etc
Yep, that's how it works. First you get your 'provisorisch' bill which is based on an estimate, THEN you file a tax return with the actual numbers, THEN you get a final bill/refund to settle up the difference.

If you think the estimate they used for the initial bill is way out of line (which ours was, the year we changed to C - and will be again this year for other reasons) they're happy to recalculate it. Just go talk to them.
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Old 16.01.2015, 07:37
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Re: Question: Tax bill from the Gemeinde for 2014 "Provisorisch" tax

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Ok, but I haven't filed a tax return for 2014 yet so how do they know my final tax amount? Does everyone get this bill beginning of the year for the year before if you've paid in too little? I was expecting to get the final bill / return in november or something for 2014, after they have approved my deductions etc
Are you 100% sure it's a bill for last year? Sometimes the final bills for previous years come in rather later than expected, so it might be a bill for 2013.

In any case, if you speak any German or have a friend who does, just nip on down to the tax office. Unlike in America, they're really quite friendly here (well, they probably don't get too many people yelling and screaming at them, either).
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Old 19.01.2015, 09:44
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Re: Question: Tax bill from the Gemeinde for 2014 "Provisorisch" tax

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Are you 100% sure it's a bill for last year? Sometimes the final bills for previous years come in rather later than expected, so it might be a bill for 2013.

In any case, if you speak any German or have a friend who does, just nip on down to the tax office. Unlike in America, they're really quite friendly here (well, they probably don't get too many people yelling and screaming at them, either).
I got one bill for 2013 and one for 2014. I went down the tax office and he clarified it all for me. They are both "provisorishe" bills. Apparently they send out another provisorishe bill for the same year (I had already gotten one beginning for 2014) if the first one was too much off the mark.

Anyway as mentioned above he re-calculated the huge 2014 one to a more realistic amount.

What a stupid system. In Sweden the tax is deducted from the salary each month, as it should be.
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