Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 15.04.2016, 13:40
adrianlondon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 9,189
Groaned at 193 Times in 176 Posts
Thanked 25,643 Times in 6,892 Posts
adrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

If one doesn't need the cash, would you/anyone have an opinion on whether it's best, when leaving Switzerland, just to leave the money in Switzerland and draw a (partial) Swiss pension when retiring? I've not looked into this at all, but does the Swiss pension amount earn a standard rate of interest? Is it linked to anything?
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 15.04.2016, 13:52
Salad Days's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Geneva
Posts: 366
Groaned at 13 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 274 Times in 118 Posts
Salad Days has made some interesting contributions
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Quote:
View Post
Getting confirmation from the LOB fund took almost 2 months, payout within 1 week of receiving the signed paperwork from myself & proof of not marrying since leaving CH.
May I ask why 'proof of not marrying since leaving CH.' is relevant? What happens if you have? You forfeit with your life or something?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 15.04.2016, 14:19
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 16,866
Groaned at 291 Times in 241 Posts
Thanked 14,298 Times in 7,987 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Quote:
View Post
May I ask why 'proof of not marrying since leaving CH.' is relevant? What happens if you have? You forfeit with your life or something?


Your wife/husband may have a financial interest in the fund, so they will need their signature approving the release
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 20.05.2016, 23:14
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Baar
Posts: 32
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
NicolaSk has no particular reputation at present
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Thank you for the link.

May I ask, did you move within the EU and did you receive your payout in a Swiss bank, EU bank or other international bank?
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 21.05.2016, 01:07
Wallabies's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 3,221
Groaned at 318 Times in 183 Posts
Thanked 3,314 Times in 1,577 Posts
Wallabies has a reputation beyond reputeWallabies has a reputation beyond reputeWallabies has a reputation beyond reputeWallabies has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Quote:
View Post
Thank you for the link.

May I ask, did you move within the EU and did you receive your payout in a Swiss bank, EU bank or other international bank?
It can be any of these
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 21.05.2016, 02:33
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 16,866
Groaned at 291 Times in 241 Posts
Thanked 14,298 Times in 7,987 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Quote:
View Post
Thank you for the link.

May I ask, did you move within the EU and did you receive your payout in a Swiss bank, EU bank or other international bank?
I moved to an EU country & had the payout to a Swiss bank. They ould have sent the money anywhere I wanted.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 21.05.2016, 08:37
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,229
Groaned at 92 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 1,284 Times in 748 Posts
yacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

The "Pensionkassen" are saying that the current conversion rate to annuity of about 6% is too high because people live longer than this rate assumed. So it would be in ones interest to actually not paying out a lump sum if at retirement age already.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 21.05.2016, 09:28
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 16,866
Groaned at 291 Times in 241 Posts
Thanked 14,298 Times in 7,987 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Quote:
View Post
The "Pensionkassen" are saying that the current conversion rate to annuity of about 6% is too high because people live longer than this rate assumed. So it would be in ones interest to actually not paying out a lump sum if at retirement age already.
I would rather invest in equities for the 30 plus years I will be retired, returns will exceed 6% on average by a large margin. With a pension it's worth 0 at death so the return is substantially less than the 6% offered.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #29  
Old 24.05.2016, 23:10
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Baar
Posts: 32
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
NicolaSk has no particular reputation at present
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Quote:
View Post
If you leave Switzerland to live in the EU it's often possible to take your pension fund in full as many countries don't require compulsory insurance.

Further info from http://www.sfbvg.ch/xml_3/internet/E...on/d51/f62.cfm

I have today received my full Pillar 2 fund in CASH, I did not bother to move the fund to a lower tax canton as the saving was less than 2% of the capital & I thought it would take extra time & not worth the hassle.

Getting confirmation from the LOB fund took almost 2 months, payout within 1 week of receiving the signed paperwork from myself & proof of not marrying since leaving CH.
Do you happen to know if the rules have changed recently?

I've requested the details of our Pillar 2 pension fund be transferred to the UK and the gentleman seems adamant it can only remain in a vested benefit account or Swiss policy.

Is there any particular bit of legalese I should point out to the administrator?

Departure for the United Kingdom

On departure for the United Kingdom , the corresponding form must be completed in full, signed and sent, together with the required enclosures, to the LOB Guarantee Fund. After making a preparatory control that the documents submitted are complete, the LOB Guarantee Fund will send the information to the appropriate department in the United Kingdom (HM Revenue & Customs). The LOB Guarantee Fund will control whether further assets from occupational benefit insurance for the applicant person have been reported to the Second Pillar Central Office. This competent office in the United Kingdom will, taking account of the required waiting period of 120 days after departure from Switzerland , check whether the applicant is subject to compulsory pensions insurance, and will inform the LOB Guarantee Fund in written form of the result. The LOB Guarantee Fund will then immediately forward the result to the applicant and the institution administering the account.


http://www.sfbvg.ch/xml_3/internet/E...on/d51/f62.cfm
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 25.05.2016, 11:25
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 16,866
Groaned at 291 Times in 241 Posts
Thanked 14,298 Times in 7,987 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Quote:
View Post
Do you happen to know if the rules have changed recently?

I've requested the details of our Pillar 2 pension fund be transferred to the UK and the gentleman seems adamant it can only remain in a vested benefit account or Swiss policy.

Is there any particular bit of legalese I should point out to the administrator?

Departure for the United Kingdom

On departure for the United Kingdom , the corresponding form must be completed in full, signed and sent, together with the required enclosures, to the LOB Guarantee Fund. After making a preparatory control that the documents submitted are complete, the LOB Guarantee Fund will send the information to the appropriate department in the United Kingdom (HM Revenue & Customs). The LOB Guarantee Fund will control whether further assets from occupational benefit insurance for the applicant person have been reported to the Second Pillar Central Office. This competent office in the United Kingdom will, taking account of the required waiting period of 120 days after departure from Switzerland , check whether the applicant is subject to compulsory pensions insurance, and will inform the LOB Guarantee Fund in written form of the result. The LOB Guarantee Fund will then immediately forward the result to the applicant and the institution administering the account.


http://www.sfbvg.ch/xml_3/internet/E...on/d51/f62.cfm
The rules have not changed, pension administrators have no idea what they are talking about. The have not read the rules & if the do they interpret something they have not fully understood. The default answer is no, I heard it many times ....

It's nothing to do with the administrator, just send in the paperwork to the LOB fund they will write a letter to the administrator.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #31  
Old 25.05.2016, 11:40
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Baar
Posts: 32
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
NicolaSk has no particular reputation at present
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Thanks for your many replies, you're very helpful.

So, just to recap, if Pension Fund repeatedly say no to withdraw Pillar 2 into cash to UK we have to submit the form previously linked to LOB Guarantee Fund and wait for their answer?
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 25.05.2016, 11:47
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 16,866
Groaned at 291 Times in 241 Posts
Thanked 14,298 Times in 7,987 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Quote:
View Post
Thanks for your many replies, you're very helpful.

So, just to recap, if Pension Fund repeatedly say no to withdraw Pillar 2 into cash to UK we have to submit the form previously linked to LOB Guarantee Fund and wait for their answer?
Exactly, it's not a decision that the pension fund can take.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #33  
Old 25.05.2016, 11:58
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Baar
Posts: 32
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
NicolaSk has no particular reputation at present
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Thank you again.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 26.05.2016, 14:03
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Baar
Posts: 32
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
NicolaSk has no particular reputation at present
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Hi again,

I'm filling in the form to be submitted to the LOB Guarantee Fund and the last section states, "To be completed by the competent foreign body" and, the competent body confirms that the above person on xyz (date of examination) is a) subject to the State pension insurance scheme or b) is not subject to the state pension insurance scheme"

Who would I approach in the UK to stamp this document and make the declaration required?

Ta
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 26.05.2016, 14:04
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 16,866
Groaned at 291 Times in 241 Posts
Thanked 14,298 Times in 7,987 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Quote:
View Post
Hi again,

I'm filling in the form to be submitted to the LOB Guarantee Fund and the last section states, "To be completed by the competent foreign body" and, the competent body confirms that the above person on xyz (date of examination) is a) subject to the State pension insurance scheme or b) is not subject to the state pension insurance scheme"

Who would I approach in the UK to stamp this document and make the declaration required?

Ta
Send the form to the LOB, they send it to the UK.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #36  
Old 26.05.2016, 14:18
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Formerly in Neuchatel
Posts: 2,614
Groaned at 229 Times in 159 Posts
Thanked 4,591 Times in 1,778 Posts
porsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Quote:
View Post
Send the form to the LOB, they send it to the UK.
And then HMRC will send you a letter asking for all sorts of details.

I have a feeling my application for the compulsory part of the Pillar 2 will be rejected due to NIC contributions!

@Nicolask You shouldn't need the LOB fund application to withdraw the non-compulsory part of the pillar 2. I'd go searching for the relevant law and show it to your bank. Or ask them to transfer it to a bank that has a clue.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 26.05.2016, 14:20
Pachyderm's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,118
Groaned at 56 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 2,325 Times in 821 Posts
Pachyderm has a reputation beyond reputePachyderm has a reputation beyond reputePachyderm has a reputation beyond reputePachyderm has a reputation beyond reputePachyderm has a reputation beyond reputePachyderm has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Is it possible that this is age-related?

I'm wondering if over a certain age (e.g. the earliest retirement age -- used to be 55) you're able to get the Pillar 2 cash back without much trouble, seeing as you're now eligible to start drawing from a secondary pension. But that if you're under 55, you still have to transfer the sum to a locked pension-style account?

I don't for a moment doubt the authoritative word of Mr FF, but am wondering if this explains why he was able to get the cash, whereas others might be struggling to do so?
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 26.05.2016, 14:23
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 16,866
Groaned at 291 Times in 241 Posts
Thanked 14,298 Times in 7,987 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Quote:
View Post
And then HMRC will send you a letter asking for all sorts of details.

I have a feeling my application for the compulsory part of the Pillar 2 will be rejected due to NIC contributions!

@Nicolask You shouldn't need the LOB fund application to withdraw the non-compulsory part of the pillar 2. I'd go searching for the relevant law and show it to your bank. Or ask them to transfer it to a bank that has a clue.
I would be very surprised if you don't get a full payout.
You don't need to ask the LOB fund for the non compulsory part, the insurance company should release it without problem.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #39  
Old 26.05.2016, 14:27
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Formerly in Neuchatel
Posts: 2,614
Groaned at 229 Times in 159 Posts
Thanked 4,591 Times in 1,778 Posts
porsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Quote:
View Post
I would be very surprised if you don't get a full payout.
You don't need to ask the LOB fund for the non compulsory part, the insurance company should release it without problem.
Did you see the picture I sent on facebook? I may not reply to HMRC at all. It's not a huge amount of money
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 26.05.2016, 14:28
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Formerly in Neuchatel
Posts: 2,614
Groaned at 229 Times in 159 Posts
Thanked 4,591 Times in 1,778 Posts
porsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Quote:
View Post
Is it possible that this is age-related?

I'm wondering if over a certain age (e.g. the earliest retirement age -- used to be 55) you're able to get the Pillar 2 cash back without much trouble, seeing as you're now eligible to start drawing from a secondary pension. But that if you're under 55, you still have to transfer the sum to a locked pension-style account?

I don't for a moment doubt the authoritative word of Mr FF, but am wondering if this explains why he was able to get the cash, whereas others might be struggling to do so?
No. Nothing to do with age. I'm under 30 and got mine non-compulsory part without any hassle (beyond the normal swiss hassle)
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cashing out Swiss pension (Pillar 1) for Non-EU (Canada) expat4ever Finance/banking/taxation 17 21.10.2018 21:50
Cashing in Swiss pension and returning to the UK cbb Finance/banking/taxation 45 30.10.2016 07:57
Returning to the US - transferring or cashing out Swiss pension? cb07 Finance/banking/taxation 10 05.06.2015 13:29
Cashing in Swiss Pension rossallard Leaving Switzerland 33 26.08.2014 20:59
cashing in part of pension returning to UK satkin Finance/banking/taxation 36 12.10.2011 12:54


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:28.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0