Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05.06.2015, 14:23
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 18,369
Groaned at 342 Times in 273 Posts
Thanked 17,953 Times in 9,726 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

If you leave Switzerland to live in the EU it's often possible to take your pension fund in full as many countries don't require compulsory insurance.

Further info from http://www.sfbvg.ch/xml_3/internet/E...on/d51/f62.cfm

I have today received my full Pillar 2 fund in CASH, I did not bother to move the fund to a lower tax canton as the saving was less than 2% of the capital & I thought it would take extra time & not worth the hassle.

Getting confirmation from the LOB fund took almost 2 months, payout within 1 week of receiving the signed paperwork from myself & proof of not marrying since leaving CH.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 05.06.2015, 23:20
defcon3's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Geneva
Posts: 522
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 408 Times in 155 Posts
defcon3 has an excellent reputationdefcon3 has an excellent reputationdefcon3 has an excellent reputationdefcon3 has an excellent reputation
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

You leave us, sensei?.. Well, I certainly hope you will stick around and share more tips - I, for one, have learned a great deal from you for which I thank you.

Best of luck, wherever you settle next
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank defcon3 for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 09.09.2015, 08:29
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Aargau
Posts: 846
Groaned at 322 Times in 159 Posts
Thanked 324 Times in 229 Posts
plumtree is considered unworthyplumtree is considered unworthyplumtree is considered unworthyplumtree is considered unworthy
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Also possible for permanent move of residence to non-EU countries: the EFTA countries Norway and Iceland. Not possible for Liechtenstein.

Retirement Pension
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank plumtree for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 21.01.2016, 22:15
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: La Chaux-de-Fonds
Posts: 96
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 32 Times in 18 Posts
Metallising has earned some respectMetallising has earned some respect
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

I'm in the process of leaving the country, when asked my insurance company how I could withdraw the 2nd pillar they informed me I could only take around 20% (this number may vary) by law, the rest has to stay in Swiss. I specified I'm moving to a EU country.

fatmanfilms, how did you do to take the fund in full?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 21.01.2016, 22:22
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Glarus
Posts: 44
Groaned at 19 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 57 Times in 26 Posts
twenty has earned some respecttwenty has earned some respect
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Quote:
View Post
in Swiss.
oh you'll be sorry you did that
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank twenty for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 22.01.2016, 00:01
miniMia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: romandie
Posts: 9,993
Groaned at 101 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 9,106 Times in 4,522 Posts
miniMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Quote:
View Post
I'm in the process of leaving the country, when asked my insurance company how I could withdraw the 2nd pillar they informed me I could only take around 20% (this number may vary) by law, the rest has to stay in Swiss. I specified I'm moving to a EU country.

fatmanfilms, how did you do to take the fund in full?
Ok... I'll do it. The country is called Switzerland. Swiss is the adjective and the airline. :P

You can only take part of your 2ieme pillier to Portugal if you have reached retirement age.

Details are here.

http://aso.ch/fr/conseils/vivre-a-le...du-2eme-pilier

Last edited by miniMia; 22.01.2016 at 12:48.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 22.01.2016, 00:14
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Leaving again- didn't you you had come back Metalising. Good luck- again.

Mia the way I read it, it is the other way round. Fatmans is almost at retirement age, so he can take it:

En revanche, les personnes qui, à l'âge de la retraite quittent définitivement la Suisse pour l'un des pays mentionnés plus haut pourront, même après le 1er juin 2007, retirer leur capital de 2ème pilier

(however, persons who, at the age of retirment leave Switzerland definitely for on the above mentioned countries, will be able to, even after 1st June 2007, take the capital of their second pillar.

Metalising is a young man of employment age, and therefore won't be able to do so. Same happened to a young friend of our who left to go back to the UK recently.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 15.04.2016, 09:46
nasa2000's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 428
Groaned at 18 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 278 Times in 128 Posts
nasa2000 has earned the respect of manynasa2000 has earned the respect of manynasa2000 has earned the respect of many
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Quote:
View Post
If you leave Switzerland to live in the EU it's often possible to take your pension fund in full as many countries don't require compulsory insurance.

Further info from http://www.sfbvg.ch/xml_3/internet/E...on/d51/f62.cfm

I have today received my full Pillar 2 fund in CASH, I did not bother to move the fund to a lower tax canton as the saving was less than 2% of the capital & I thought it would take extra time & not worth the hassle.

Getting confirmation from the LOB fund took almost 2 months, payout within 1 week of receiving the signed paperwork from myself & proof of not marrying since leaving CH.
Thanks for sharing your experience.

One question, you say in FULL so there was no tax deduction? The reason I ask is because I contacted my pension fund few years ago to ask for the procedure, they told me I can get the money but after deduction of tax which if I recall correctly was about 7%. Though my case was moving to a non-EU country with no pension agreement with Switzerland.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 15.04.2016, 11:39
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Basel
Posts: 539
Groaned at 6 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 354 Times in 202 Posts
dbucar has earned the respect of manydbucar has earned the respect of manydbucar has earned the respect of many
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Quote:
View Post
Thanks for sharing your experience.

One question, you say in FULL so there was no tax deduction? The reason I ask is because I contacted my pension fund few years ago to ask for the procedure, they told me I can get the money but after deduction of tax which if I recall correctly was about 7%. Though my case was moving to a non-EU country with no pension agreement with Switzerland.
That must be the regular Quellensteuer then. This money was not taxed when deduced from your salary, so needs to be now whhen you liquidate it.
Cheers
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 15.04.2016, 11:01
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Zug
Posts: 3
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Flumps has no particular reputation at present
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Hi there,
this is great information. I have received so many conflicting bits of information from people and pension companies. Looks like what you have said is definitive.

I think the problem is that with the UK not having a compulsory pension scheme, it confuses everyone else.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 15.04.2016, 12:52
Salad Days's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Geneva
Posts: 385
Groaned at 12 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 287 Times in 127 Posts
Salad Days has made some interesting contributions
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Quote:
View Post
Getting confirmation from the LOB fund took almost 2 months, payout within 1 week of receiving the signed paperwork from myself & proof of not marrying since leaving CH.
May I ask why 'proof of not marrying since leaving CH.' is relevant? What happens if you have? You forfeit with your life or something?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 15.04.2016, 13:19
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 18,369
Groaned at 342 Times in 273 Posts
Thanked 17,953 Times in 9,726 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Quote:
View Post
May I ask why 'proof of not marrying since leaving CH.' is relevant? What happens if you have? You forfeit with your life or something?


Your wife/husband may have a financial interest in the fund, so they will need their signature approving the release
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 21.05.2016, 07:37
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,404
Groaned at 107 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 1,481 Times in 859 Posts
yacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

The "Pensionkassen" are saying that the current conversion rate to annuity of about 6% is too high because people live longer than this rate assumed. So it would be in ones interest to actually not paying out a lump sum if at retirement age already.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 21.05.2016, 08:28
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 18,369
Groaned at 342 Times in 273 Posts
Thanked 17,953 Times in 9,726 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Quote:
View Post
The "Pensionkassen" are saying that the current conversion rate to annuity of about 6% is too high because people live longer than this rate assumed. So it would be in ones interest to actually not paying out a lump sum if at retirement age already.
I would rather invest in equities for the 30 plus years I will be retired, returns will exceed 6% on average by a large margin. With a pension it's worth 0 at death so the return is substantially less than the 6% offered.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 24.05.2016, 22:10
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Baar
Posts: 32
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
NicolaSk has no particular reputation at present
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Quote:
View Post
If you leave Switzerland to live in the EU it's often possible to take your pension fund in full as many countries don't require compulsory insurance.

Further info from http://www.sfbvg.ch/xml_3/internet/E...on/d51/f62.cfm

I have today received my full Pillar 2 fund in CASH, I did not bother to move the fund to a lower tax canton as the saving was less than 2% of the capital & I thought it would take extra time & not worth the hassle.

Getting confirmation from the LOB fund took almost 2 months, payout within 1 week of receiving the signed paperwork from myself & proof of not marrying since leaving CH.
Do you happen to know if the rules have changed recently?

I've requested the details of our Pillar 2 pension fund be transferred to the UK and the gentleman seems adamant it can only remain in a vested benefit account or Swiss policy.

Is there any particular bit of legalese I should point out to the administrator?

Departure for the United Kingdom

On departure for the United Kingdom , the corresponding form must be completed in full, signed and sent, together with the required enclosures, to the LOB Guarantee Fund. After making a preparatory control that the documents submitted are complete, the LOB Guarantee Fund will send the information to the appropriate department in the United Kingdom (HM Revenue & Customs). The LOB Guarantee Fund will control whether further assets from occupational benefit insurance for the applicant person have been reported to the Second Pillar Central Office. This competent office in the United Kingdom will, taking account of the required waiting period of 120 days after departure from Switzerland , check whether the applicant is subject to compulsory pensions insurance, and will inform the LOB Guarantee Fund in written form of the result. The LOB Guarantee Fund will then immediately forward the result to the applicant and the institution administering the account.


http://www.sfbvg.ch/xml_3/internet/E...on/d51/f62.cfm
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 25.05.2016, 10:25
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 18,369
Groaned at 342 Times in 273 Posts
Thanked 17,953 Times in 9,726 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Quote:
View Post
Do you happen to know if the rules have changed recently?

I've requested the details of our Pillar 2 pension fund be transferred to the UK and the gentleman seems adamant it can only remain in a vested benefit account or Swiss policy.

Is there any particular bit of legalese I should point out to the administrator?

Departure for the United Kingdom

On departure for the United Kingdom , the corresponding form must be completed in full, signed and sent, together with the required enclosures, to the LOB Guarantee Fund. After making a preparatory control that the documents submitted are complete, the LOB Guarantee Fund will send the information to the appropriate department in the United Kingdom (HM Revenue & Customs). The LOB Guarantee Fund will control whether further assets from occupational benefit insurance for the applicant person have been reported to the Second Pillar Central Office. This competent office in the United Kingdom will, taking account of the required waiting period of 120 days after departure from Switzerland , check whether the applicant is subject to compulsory pensions insurance, and will inform the LOB Guarantee Fund in written form of the result. The LOB Guarantee Fund will then immediately forward the result to the applicant and the institution administering the account.


http://www.sfbvg.ch/xml_3/internet/E...on/d51/f62.cfm
The rules have not changed, pension administrators have no idea what they are talking about. The have not read the rules & if the do they interpret something they have not fully understood. The default answer is no, I heard it many times ....

It's nothing to do with the administrator, just send in the paperwork to the LOB fund they will write a letter to the administrator.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 25.05.2016, 10:40
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Baar
Posts: 32
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
NicolaSk has no particular reputation at present
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Thanks for your many replies, you're very helpful.

So, just to recap, if Pension Fund repeatedly say no to withdraw Pillar 2 into cash to UK we have to submit the form previously linked to LOB Guarantee Fund and wait for their answer?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 25.05.2016, 10:47
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 18,369
Groaned at 342 Times in 273 Posts
Thanked 17,953 Times in 9,726 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Quote:
View Post
Thanks for your many replies, you're very helpful.

So, just to recap, if Pension Fund repeatedly say no to withdraw Pillar 2 into cash to UK we have to submit the form previously linked to LOB Guarantee Fund and wait for their answer?
Exactly, it's not a decision that the pension fund can take.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 25.05.2016, 10:58
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Baar
Posts: 32
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
NicolaSk has no particular reputation at present
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

Thank you again.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 20.10.2017, 15:24
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
taekana has no particular reputation at present
Re: Leaving to live in the EU & cashing in a Swiss Pension

I am not a European citizen, created a "vested interest" account at UBS for my pension money, and was informed that I just need to submit my deregistration document informing where I will move. If I move to the EU, the non-compulsory part can be transferred to any account that I give them, while the compulsory part will remain in Switzerland until:
1. 5 years before retiring age if I remain in the EU
2. I leave the EU to relocate abroad.

The same applied to previous friends of mine who also worked at ETH Zurich.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cashing out Swiss pension (Pillar 1) for Non-EU (Canada) expat4ever Finance/banking/taxation 17 21.10.2018 20:50
Cashing in Swiss pension and returning to the UK cbb Finance/banking/taxation 45 30.10.2016 06:57
Returning to the US - transferring or cashing out Swiss pension? cb07 Finance/banking/taxation 10 05.06.2015 12:29
Cashing in Swiss Pension rossallard Leaving Switzerland 33 26.08.2014 19:59
cashing in part of pension returning to UK satkin Finance/banking/taxation 36 12.10.2011 11:54


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0