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-   -   Pension Slip for Previous Pension Fund (forwarded?) (https://www.englishforum.ch/finance-banking-taxation/235204-pension-slip-previous-pension-fund-forwarded.html)

babel 10.06.2015 22:33

Pension Slip for Previous Pension Fund (forwarded?)
 
Hello english forum! :)

This is an awkward question. We are almost set to move to Zurich from England (London) where my husband has been working for few years now (6). He ha already told at work that he is leaving and such. And the new company in Zurich is requesting the following among other documents (which we are completing):

"Payment Slip for Previous Pension Fund", and then they ask for the slip to be "forwarded".

Has any one done something similar before or has an idea on how to proceed? do it? or how is it done? He certainly has a pension fund,... but we are in the limbo in knowing how to forward it or get it... perhaps there is something we are missing, some silver linings, if anyone could bring some light on it, it would be very much appreciated! Thanks! (Can't wait to reciprocate later on in the forum!)

Kind regards!

Babel

jaudi 10.06.2015 22:49

Re: Pension Slip for Previous Pension Fund (forwarded?)
 
When moving to a new employer in Switzerland it is normal to transfer your company pension to the new company, hence you have been given the paperwork to achieve this. However, this does not apply if coming from a non-swiss company.

Sbrinz 10.06.2015 22:57

Re: Pension Slip for Previous Pension Fund (forwarded?)
 
There are 3 pensions here, you could compare them to
UK government pension
UK company pension
UK private pension

The new employer is asking husband to transfer his UK company pension assets to his company pension here.

useful information
http://www.englishforum.ch/finance-b...d-summary.html

babel 10.06.2015 23:34

Re: Pension Slip for Previous Pension Fund (forwarded?)
 
Thank you Jaudi! I have some more questions which will post below! you guys are very nice.

babel 10.06.2015 23:42

Re: Pension Slip for Previous Pension Fund (forwarded?)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sbrinz (Post 2403057)
There are 3 pensions here, you could compare them to
UK government pension
UK company pension
UK private pension

The new employer is asking husband to transfer his UK company pension assets to his company pension here.

useful information
http://www.englishforum.ch/finance-b...d-summary.html

Hi Sbrinz ! Thank you for your message.

For what you are saying, I am establishing that 1. My husband has a government pension and 2. a Company pension. (after your message we checked it, and yes.

Therefore, are we assuming correctly that:

1. for the Gov. Pension he will have to fill in a "QROPS"? form? or how does one proceed to ask for a transfer?

2. For the company pension fund, does he have to speak with Human Resources in his company here in London and/or themselves forward it to Switzerland?

I know these questions probably seem simple, but at this moment and all the move, this sounds like Chinese to us.

Thanks in advance!

jaudi 11.06.2015 00:18

Re: Pension Slip for Previous Pension Fund (forwarded?)
 
There is loads of info on this site - just use the search.

State pension (Pillar 1)
--------------------------
This is (in part) what your UK national insurance payments contribute to. There is nothing to transfer. Your entitlement remains in the UK until retirement age. Assuming enough entitlement has been accrued you will claim this at retirement from UK government regardless of where you live at the time. Subject to rule changes between now and then, of course. Whilst you are employed in Switzerland you will similarly contribute to the Swiss system (AHV/IV) and accrue an entitlement, although the terms are very different. This entitlement remains in Switzerland until you retire, at which time you claim it from the Swiss government (alongside what you claim from the UK).

Company pension (Pillar 2)
------------------------------
This is your existing UK company pension(s). As mentioned, you do not have to transfer this to your Swiss employer. There are options to transfer to a QROPS scheme if you wish, but you would need to take advice (not sales pitch!) if considering this. Whilst working in Switzerland it is mandatory to be enrolled in your employers Pillar 2 (BVG) pension unless you work very short hours/very low earnings. Unlike the UK (where you can accrue company pensions with many companies) this is transferred to your next employer when you change jobs. Depending on the level of your contribution and your status/destination when leaving Switzerland, some or all of this can be cashed in if you leave the country. You can also draw on it for property purchase (own residence). Otherwise it will sit in a special locked account until retirement.

Additional pension savings/investments (Pillar 3)
-------------------------------------------------------
Regulated (usually tax efficient) schemes e.g. UK ISAs. There is a similar scheme in Switzerland called Pillar 3a which is a bit like an ISA (can be cash or fund based). However, again there is no need to transfer anything from the UK. Indeed your Pillar 3a contribution is meant to come from earnings (although in reality all this means is you must earn more than you contribute). Like ISAs, you can build up many 3a accounts over time. They are intended to be drawn down as income to supplement your pension when retired, however they can be cashed in if you leave Switzerland (fewer restrictions that Pillar 2) or purchase property (own residence).

babel 11.06.2015 15:39

Re: Pension Slip for Previous Pension Fund (forwarded?)
 
Dear Jaudi,

Thank you very much for the info. We had been and are continuously looking and your explanation helped a lot.

Thanks Sbrinz and Jaudi for your comments. If youhave any other thoughts, you are welcome. And i hope to be soon able to reciprocate in the forum. Have a nice day!

fatmanfilms 11.06.2015 16:00

Re: Pension Slip for Previous Pension Fund (forwarded?)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by babel (Post 2403336)
Dear Jaudi,

Thank you very much for the info. We had been and are continuously looking and your explanation helped a lot.

Thanks Sbrinz and Jaudi for your comments. If youhave any other thoughts, you are welcome. And i hope to be soon able to reciprocate in the forum. Have a nice day!

Why do you want to transfer? Swiss pension fund returns are very low.......

babel 11.06.2015 17:36

Re: Pension Slip for Previous Pension Fund (forwarded?)
 
Hi Fatmanfilms! Thanks for message. Well, I think that two nights ago, in the heat of the doubt... ;) after hours of browsing and filling in paperwork for the new job, we thought that if the new hiring company in zurich was asking him for the "payment slip of pension fund" it was because it was also meant to transfer it.

We are beginning to understand that actually he only needs to "forward" the "payment slip" but possibly not necessarily needs to do the transfer.

Would it be correct?

Thanks again! :)

fatmanfilms 11.06.2015 17:38

Re: Pension Slip for Previous Pension Fund (forwarded?)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by babel (Post 2403396)
Hi Fatmanfilms! Thanks for message. Well, I think that two nights ago, in the heat of the doubt... ;) after hours of browsing and filling in paperwork for the new job, we thought that if the new hiring company in zurich was asking him for the "payment slip of pension fund" it was because it was also meant to transfer it.

We are beginning to understand that actually he only needs to "forward" the "payment slip" but possibly not necessarily needs to do the transfer.

Would it be correct?

Thanks again! :)

No need to forward anything, it's not a Swiss scheme, it does not need to be transferred & the balance is none of their business either.

babel 11.06.2015 17:45

Re: Pension Slip for Previous Pension Fund (forwarded?)
 
Umh Fatmanfilms, very interesting. Never thought of that.

The new company is asking for it in the "documentation package" sent for him to fill in.

I wonder why would they ask for it, then it won't be related to his pension future fund then? For one second I thought the pension funds in different countries where supposed to be 'united' under one umbrella...sort of speaking! (sorry I am walking in the street and can't see what I am writing too well)
We were thinking this morning that perhaps we should hire someone to help us with paperwork before we leave England (london) to make sure we aren't forgetting any other important thing with the move to a new country.

Thanks, a looooot!


Thanks again.

fatmanfilms 11.06.2015 17:56

Re: Pension Slip for Previous Pension Fund (forwarded?)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by babel (Post 2403400)
Umh Fatmanfilms, very interesting. Never thought of that.

The new company is asking for it in the "documentation package" sent for him to fill in.

I wonder why would they ask for it, then it won't be related to his pension future fund then? For one second I thought the pension funds in different countries where supposed to be 'united' under one umbrella...sort of speaking! (sorry I am walking in the street and can't see what I am writing too well)
We were thinking this morning that perhaps we should hire someone to help us with paperwork before we leave England (london) to make sure we aren't forgetting any other important thing with the move to a new country.

Thanks, a looooot!




Thanks again.

It's worth paying voluntary class 2 UK National Insurance contributions (about 140 a year) so you get 35 years of credits in the UK, then you can have a full UK state pension as well as whatever you earn in the Swiss System.

Kamarate 11.06.2015 18:07

Re: Pension Slip for Previous Pension Fund (forwarded?)
 
Is the new (Swiss) pension fund even QROPS?

Kamarate 15.09.2015 20:13

Re: Pension Slip for Previous Pension Fund (forwarded?)
 
Little update here: Swiss pension funds no longer qualify as QROPS. HMRC don't want people withdrawing money from their pension pot (for example to purchase a property or as part of a divorce settlement) after a certain age (55 I believe but don't remember off the top of my head). Obviously under Swiss law pension funds cannot deny their members these requests so *poof* no more QROPS here. Not sure how this impacts those who already transferred their assets but imagine they are safe. If anyone has any info/amendments/corrections please do chime in, I would be interested to know (from a professional perspective as the only workplace pension I've ever had is here!).

fatmanfilms 15.09.2015 20:27

Re: Pension Slip for Previous Pension Fund (forwarded?)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamarate (Post 2449953)
Little update here: Swiss pension funds no longer qualify as QROPS. HMRC don't want people withdrawing money from their pension pot (for example to purchase a property or as part of a divorce settlement) after a certain age (55 I believe but don't remember off the top of my head). Obviously under Swiss law pension funds cannot deny their members these requests so *poof* no more QROPS here. Not sure how this impacts those who already transferred their assets but imagine they are safe. If anyone has any info/amendments/corrections please do chime in, I would be interested to know (from a professional perspective as the only workplace pension I've ever had is here!).

As UK pension funds can now be cashed in from age 55, it's not the age issue. More likely the house purchase / divorce issue.

Anyone who has a QROPS but then moves back to the UK will end up paying more tax than if it had remained a UK pension. They will only get 10% tax free rather than 25% so potentially a bad deal.

HIAO 15.09.2015 22:10

Re: Pension Slip for Previous Pension Fund (forwarded?)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamarate (Post 2449953)
Little update here: Swiss pension funds no longer qualify as QROPS. HMRC don't want people withdrawing money from their pension pot (for example to purchase a property or as part of a divorce settlement) after a certain age (55 I believe but don't remember off the top of my head). Obviously under Swiss law pension funds cannot deny their members these requests so *poof* no more QROPS here. Not sure how this impacts those who already transferred their assets but imagine they are safe. If anyone has any info/amendments/corrections please do chime in, I would be interested to know (from a professional perspective as the only workplace pension I've ever had is here!).

Yes. HMRC have applied new laws and now insist that receiving schemes cannot pay benefits before age 55, except in case of ill health retirement. This is counter to the Swiss system.

All Swiss QROPs receiving schemes, apart from CERN are now removed from the approved HMRC list.

The purpose of QROPs was to support legitimate transfers from UK pensions for people who permanently leave the UK.

UK made a crap job of introducing QROPs and were surprised that they were abused. Instead of fixing the scheme, they create a bullshit reason to close them down, while blaming circumstances out of their control.

Kamarate 16.09.2015 08:46

Re: Pension Slip for Previous Pension Fund (forwarded?)
 
Thanks for those clarifications - I had understood something a little different but it's clear now. Bottom line is no more QROPS here.

newtoswitz 16.09.2015 10:29

Re: Pension Slip for Previous Pension Fund (forwarded?)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 2403408)
It's worth paying voluntary class 2 UK National Insurance contributions (about 140 a year) so you get 35 years of credits in the UK, then you can have a full UK state pension as well as whatever you earn in the Swiss System.

I hadn't realised this - the numbers seem too good to be true if 140 per year for 35 years gets you a 150 per week pension.

?

fatmanfilms 16.09.2015 13:06

Re: Pension Slip for Previous Pension Fund (forwarded?)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by newtoswitz (Post 2450178)
I hadn't realised this - the numbers seem too good to be true if 140 per year for 35 years gets you a 150 per week pension.

?

Those are the no's if you could do voluntary contributions for 35 years, actually you get a credit it for years in education after 16 so possibly nearer 30 years of actual paying.
If you work in the UK you will pay a huge amount more than 140 a year.


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