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  #21  
Old 16.06.2015, 15:24
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Re: Investment fund

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It's hardly surprising that business that have high costs of replacing equipment & retooling will ever make money in the long run, Airlines & car manufactures are 2 obvious examples of that.
Right, who needs 18% margin? Come on, auto-industry ain't doing half bad. And with Ferrari listing it's stuff coming fall, there are nice picks out there.

Also the problems with airlines is the structure of the industry and not (just) the cost of doing business. You need a more holistic approach to profitability to correctly asses it for the future.

In fact the consumer staples you mentioned earlier are not far off from the auto manufacturers I linked to above. P&G is at 10-15% the past few years for example.

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Old 16.06.2015, 15:36
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Re: Investment fund

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If you won't take any risk then you won't get rich from a pay check.
i was thinking the other day that is probably the main reason why property is a 'good' investment. not because of any intrinsic return on property itself (ok, maybe as a natural housing hedge), but the fact that it forces ordinary people to invest a substantial portion of their income every month for 25 years.

i wonder if there is a website where you can run a scenario to see what would have happened if you put $1000 into a certain index every month for the last x years. i imagine that for most people, they would be much better off.
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  #23  
Old 16.06.2015, 15:37
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Re: Investment fund

Zerohedge.com is a tinfoil hat loony bin where the delusional preach to the paranoid who are probably being trolled on the side by at least some of the authors.

Please, for the sake of me keeping what precious little remains of my faith in humanity, do not make any investment decisions based on the articles, let alone the comments on Zerohedge.

Seriously. If I went short just 1 dollar every time ZH predicts the final cataclysmic collapse of everything (for real this time! guys! guys!?) I'd have long lost all my money.

Oh eventually they will get it right for once, just as a broken clock does.

Finally, if some of you are so paranoid about banks holding evil derivatives (gasp!) that you put all your savings into physical gold, then I'd ditch the gold and start buying canned peaches, guns and bullets. You can't eat gold, neither can you defend yourself with it (unless you plan to hurl it at people). The kind of collapse you are protecting yourself against would likely not leave society in a state where your gold is good for anything.

I'm with fatmanfilms on the equity story. If you want growth with some sensible risk profile, go into equities. If you really want it to do hands off, grab an SP500 ETF like VOO or SPY and put in regular dosages of money. Do not bet the farm on it all at once, just steadily accumulate it.
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  #24  
Old 16.06.2015, 15:55
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Re: Investment fund

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Right, who needs 18% margin? Come on, auto-industry ain't doing half bad. And with Ferrari listing it's stuff coming fall, there are nice picks out there.

Also the problems with airlines is the structure of the industry and not (just) the cost of doing business. You need a more holistic approach to profitability to correctly asses it for the future.

In fact the consumer staples you mentioned earlier are not far off from the auto manufacturers I linked to above. P&G is at 10-15% the past few years for example.

The average Gross margin of all the companies in the S&P 500 index is 44%, Fundsmith average company makes 60% which would seem preferable to me.
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  #25  
Old 16.06.2015, 16:09
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Re: Investment fund

net vs gross and all that
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  #26  
Old 16.06.2015, 16:10
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Re: Investment fund

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Zerohedge.com is a tinfoil hat loony bin where the delusional preach to the paranoid who are probably being trolled on the side by at least some of the authors.

Please, for the sake of me keeping what precious little remains of my faith in humanity, do not make any investment decisions based on the articles, let alone the comments on Zerohedge.

Seriously. If I went short just 1 dollar every time ZH predicts the final cataclysmic collapse of everything (for real this time! guys! guys!?) I'd have long lost all my money.

Oh eventually they will get it right for once, just as a broken clock does.

Finally, if some of you are so paranoid about banks holding evil derivatives (gasp!) that you put all your savings into physical gold, then I'd ditch the gold and start buying canned peaches, guns and bullets. You can't eat gold, neither can you defend yourself with it (unless you plan to hurl it at people). The kind of collapse you are protecting yourself against would likely not leave society in a state where your gold is good for anything.

I'm with fatmanfilms on the equity story. If you want growth with some sensible risk profile, go into equities. If you really want it to do hands off, grab an SP500 ETF like VOO or SPY and put in regular dosages of money. Do not bet the farm on it all at once, just steadily accumulate it.
well, the tinfoil hatters were right. if you stocked up on .22 ammo, you'd have made better returns than apple!
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  #27  
Old 16.06.2015, 19:03
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Re: Investment fund

Yes, you've got me to a "T", canned peaches, taters in the garden, woodburning stove, and our own Quelle. Wife's parents survived the American bombing in Linz and kept fed with the home garden. Does that qualify as a cataclysmic collapse? I wouldn't want to be holding equities when DB goes belly up. Is your institution holding CDS on Greek debt?
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  #28  
Old 16.06.2015, 19:19
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Re: Investment fund

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Seriously. If I went short just 1 dollar every time ZH predicts the final cataclysmic collapse of everything . . .
Oh eventually they will get it right for once, just as a broken clock does.
Once is enough for a fulfillment of 'cataclysmic collapse of everything' prophecy, and indeed it sounds inevitable, but when will it happen? This side of the 2016 presidential elections ?
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  #29  
Old 16.06.2015, 19:35
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I would never buy any bonds, equities always do better over the long run. A 65 year old should live 20 years so should have a long investment horizon.

What date was your advise? It seems unlikely that those investments would have been held during the time gold was a good investment.

Fund smith accept £100 a month or £1000 / 2000 euro min lump sum investment so the poor do indeed have access to such investments.
She sold Lehman, AIG, and Raiffeisen International mid-2007. Lucky. I see the market as a house of cards, the plunge protection team keeping the prices up. Who else would buy at today's PE ratios? I'd desperately like to have my Zweitesäule paid out, but the Austrian Finanzamt would take 40% and that sticks in my craw.

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Once is enough for a fulfillment of 'cataclysmic collapse of everything' prophecy, and indeed it sounds inevitable, but when will it happen? This side of the 2016 presidential elections ?
I've been waiting for the collapse since my late 'teens. Got terrible timing. The 25 years I worked in Swiss hotels I'd take my wages on payday to the bank and buy Vrenelis. Sure, I missed the bull market in the Dow. I'm amazed that the system has kept going for this long. But as someone said, "Better to be a year early than a day late."

Last edited by 3Wishes; 16.06.2015 at 19:55. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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  #30  
Old 16.06.2015, 20:38
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Re: Investment fund

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She sold Lehman, AIG, and Raiffeisen International mid-2007. Lucky. I see the market as a house of cards, the plunge protection team keeping the prices up. Who else would buy at today's PE ratios? I'd desperately like to have my Zweitesäule paid out, but the Austrian Finanzamt would take 40% and that sticks in my craw.
in either CHF or USD terms that gold is worth at most 15% more than you paid 8 years ago, not sure I would be cracking open the champagne any time soon.

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I've been waiting for the collapse since my late 'teens. Got terrible timing. The 25 years I worked in Swiss hotels I'd take my wages on payday to the bank and buy Vrenelis. Sure, I missed the bull market in the Dow. I'm amazed that the system has kept going for this long. But as someone said, "Better to be a year early than a day late."
Collapses happen quite frequently, however they look irrelevant a few years later. I always loose more than I had in total the last time the market tanked It's actually perfect to invest a day to late when the crash has occurred.
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Old 16.06.2015, 20:55
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Re: Investment fund

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in either CHF or USD terms that gold is worth at most 15% more than you paid 8 years ago, not sure I would be cracking open the champagne any time soon.



Collapses happen quite frequently, however they look irrelevant a few years later. I always loose more than I had in total the last time the market tanked It's actually perfect to invest a day to late when the crash has occurred.
Hard to pick a bottom and like I say, my timing's terrible. Held physical gold through the 2012 peak in gold. Still, it's kept me thrifty. Although gold, unlike property, is very liquid, you just don't want to sell the stuff. Between seasons working in the hotels, I'd sooner sleep rough than splurge for a hotel. As a true tinfoil hatter, I believe the banks are manipulating the price. Result, the East (Russia, India, China) are accumulating where the West have almost none left. Who will win?
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  #32  
Old 16.06.2015, 22:08
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Re: Investment fund

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Hard to pick a bottom and like I say, my timing's terrible. Held physical gold through the 2012 peak in gold. Still, it's kept me thrifty. Although gold, unlike property, is very liquid, you just don't want to sell the stuff. Between seasons working in the hotels, I'd sooner sleep rough than splurge for a hotel. As a true tinfoil hatter, I believe the banks are manipulating the price. Result, the East (Russia, India, China) are accumulating where the West have almost none left. Who will win?
All that manipulating the price means someone is a buyer or a seller, the moment you stop buying or selling you will see who else is buying or selling.

There was a time that I was moving the market in OCN.L, the price was under 50 pence & the spread on 200 shares was 5p. It was my first 10 bagger & I wish I had held on, my lowest buy price was 28p & highest 60p.
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  #33  
Old 17.06.2015, 00:43
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Re: Investment fund

If you wanna keep in chf, open a swissquote account and invest in a few ETFs (exchange traded funds) in areas of your choosing.

I'm also a fan of Fundsmith however, and find the TER (% fee you pay) worth it, even though it's a bit higher than most ETFs.

Don't buy funds direct from CS / UBS, you'll pay loads more in fees for custody, trading and TER (product dependent) than off Swissquote. Swissquote also has a good ETF selection and cheap 9chf trading cost
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Old 17.06.2015, 10:13
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Re: Investment fund

indeed, do not leave your money in UBS/CS do not buy any product directly from them.
Spread your saving over few ETFs tracking indexes in Asia (Chinese, Indian and the soon to be Saudi) and Europe (SMI,AMS).
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Old 17.06.2015, 10:26
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Re: Investment fund

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I'm also a fan of Fundsmith however, and find the TER (% fee you pay) worth it, even though it's a bit higher than most ETFs.
Normally I would start getting worried if too many people agree with my investment decisions
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  #36  
Old 17.06.2015, 10:54
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Re: Investment fund

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stocks have, say, a CAGR of around 8.5%. if you invested 6k a year since the age of 20, by 45, at this rate it would be worth 472k.
Which one?, who?, where? when?...please.
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Old 17.06.2015, 11:00
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Re: Investment fund

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Which one?, who?, where? when?...please.
Flybe Group (FLYB) - +8.56% price increase expected 28.06.2015 @ 14:32
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  #38  
Old 17.06.2015, 12:48
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Re: Investment fund

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indeed, do not leave your money in UBS/CS do not buy any product directly from them.
Spread your saving over few ETFs tracking indexes in Asia (Chinese, Indian and the soon to be Saudi) and Europe (SMI,AMS).
I'd not put any considerable portion of my savings into Chinese stocks. What they have going on there is basically the US money printing raised to the power of three.

At most I'd put a small budget into emerging markets and Europe, but neither look particularly good with the looming Fed rate hikes.
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  #39  
Old 17.06.2015, 12:54
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Re: Investment fund

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Which one?, who?, where? when?...please.
S&P500 last 20 years.
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  #40  
Old 17.06.2015, 14:41
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Re: Investment fund

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Which one?, who?, where? when?...please.
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Flybe Group (FLYB) - +8.56% price increase expected 28.06.2015 @ 14:32
Flybe Group (LSS) GBP 0.67 13:18:11 +0.04 +5.93%

Uh, I was taking the mickey about the risk of asking for equity advice on this forum - you didn't go and buy a few million FLYB did you
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