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Old 15.06.2015, 14:42
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Investment fund

Hi All,

We are going abroad for a sabbatical year and have built up some savings to come back to. However, sitting in the UBS savings account they will build up practically zero interest over the time we are away. So we're thinking about ways to use that money better while we're away.

At this stage I'm not really interested in trading anything directly myself just yet, as while we are away I don't want to have to regularly check the state of things to see if we should be buying/selling.

One option is to leave a lump sum in a savings account with better interest, eg the CA Financements Evolution account at 0.85% is a good option as we already have our mortgage with them.

Another option that I've read about is to put the money into an investment vehicle which tracks a certain index/exchange. As our long-term future still lies in Switzerland, I think it's prudent for the moment to leave the money in CHF and track the Swiss index (SMI). Does anyone have any experience with funds that do that? I've asked UBS about it and they say it's possible with them, but their custody account will cost hundreds of francs to get started, so I'm wondering if there are better alternatives our there that someone here may know about?

Many thanks in advance,
G
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Old 15.06.2015, 15:20
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Re: Investment fund

You need to Google for information, as one needs to be registered financial advisers, under the law, before we can advise you.

I have heard that VZ give good advice, https://www.vermoegenszentrum.ch/individuals.html

Address

VZ VermögensZentrum
Rue Ami-Lévrier 15
1201 Geneva
Phone: 022 595 15 15
Fax: 022 595 15 16
E-mail: vzgeneve@vermoegenszentrum.ch

Business hours

From Monday through Friday, between 8 am and 6 pm



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Old 15.06.2015, 15:28
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Re: Investment fund

Thanks for that and for the link. I do appreciate the legal aspects and do not mean to be asking for financial planning/advice

It was more just in case someone else had done something similar (tracking the SMI with some kind of fund) and so we could hear what their own personal experience was with whatever institution offered the service.

Cheers,
G
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Old 15.06.2015, 15:43
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Re: Investment fund

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Thanks for that and for the link. I do appreciate the legal aspects and do not mean to be asking for financial planning/advice

It was more just in case someone else had done something similar (tracking the SMI with some kind of fund) and so we could hear what their own personal experience was with whatever institution offered the service.

Cheers,
G
65% of the SMI is just 3 stocks so I would not want to track that TBH.

I have recommended www.fundsmith.co.uk / www.fundsmith.eu several times in the last 30 months, I had about 5 years salary invested in the fund until last week when I added 80% of my Swiss Pension Fund which I took as cash.
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Old 15.06.2015, 23:25
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Re: Investment fund

Draghi today said that it is inevitable that the rich get richer as a result of the ongoing QE. There is no other way he said and the poor will benefit in the end if and when the economy gets going again.

there you go
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Old 16.06.2015, 11:32
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Re: Investment fund

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Draghi today said that it is inevitable that the rich get richer as a result of the ongoing QE. There is no other way he said and the poor will benefit in the end if and when the economy gets going again.

there you go
The poor will retain their jobs, if they blew less of their money on fast food, iPhones & leased cars they could invest their savings & become rich themselves.
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Old 17.06.2015, 14:55
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Re: Investment fund

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65% of the SMI is just 3 stocks so I would not want to track that TBH.

I have recommended www.fundsmith.co.uk / www.fundsmith.eu several times in the last 30 months, I had about 5 years salary invested in the fund until last week when I added 80% of my Swiss Pension Fund which I took as cash.
I am not judging the company whatsoever but by only reading their website my first impression is not good:

1 - A fund that is less than 5 years old is nothing in order to judge someones ability to be a good portfolio manager. By some investment theories the good return of this fund can be explained by simply luck.

2 - The curricula of the guys from the website are far from impressive when it comes to equity investments. Looks like most of them were simply experienced "bureaucrats" in their past jobs and not stock pickers.

3 - No fees for performance? Hum... Are they any kind of good Samaritans? Looks like more of a marketing strategy to simply fatten the fund...

4 - "Just a small number of high quality, resilient, global growth companies that are good value and which we intend to hold for a long time, and in which we invest our own money." Why I would pay a fee for someone with a debatable track record just to hold stocks for a long time?

5 - Last but not least: visually the website is terrible.

Food for thought:


Last edited by Capo; 17.06.2015 at 15:07.
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Old 17.06.2015, 15:41
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Re: Investment fund

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3 - No fees for performance? Hum... Are they any kind of good Samaritans? Looks like more of a marketing strategy to simply fatten the fund...
The website does look a bit... web 1.0, but I think we should not judge a fund by the lack of performance fees (I'm not disputing your other points). There are now many long only equity funds (exchange traded or not) which do not charge performance fees. The game has changed (I think irreversibly) for stock picker managers.

The days are over when you could turn up with a 2/20 structure for simply buying stocks with a fairly low probability of beating vanilla index ETFs. The ETFs get there 90% of the way with 10% of the cost and ceremony.

It is a bit as you say though, you need to "fatten" up the fund as much as possible so that the <1% management fee still affords you the Caribbean vacation. It's difficult to get clients hooked on stellar performance because with stellar returns comes stellar volatility. People aiming to make "f*** you" money and get out are up for that kind of adrenaline, but the average nervous Nelly isn't.

Last edited by xynth; 18.06.2015 at 13:55.
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Old 04.03.2016, 13:21
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Re: Investment fund

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65% of the SMI is just 3 stocks so I would not want to track that TBH.

I have recommended www.fundsmith.co.uk / www.fundsmith.eu several times in the last 30 months, I had about 5 years salary invested in the fund until last week when I added 80% of my Swiss Pension Fund which I took as cash.
So I'm pretty impressed by the model & the performance of Fundsmith to date.
I've sent in my general application with my planned investment capital denominated in EUR. They have rejected this explaining that it is denominated in GBP. I had understand that there also is a EUR fund so I went back to them & they replied

"Fundsmith do offer a Euro Currency Fund called the Fundsmith Equity Fund Feeder. We do not administer this fund. For more information about this fund, please visit www.fundsmith.eu or call 00352 464 010 600."

Fund Feeder? This mean that the cash still goes into the same portfolio as the GBP investments just through a different channel?

We do not administer this Fund - I don't understand . It is a Fundsmith product, but they don't administer it.

FMF as you are au fait with fundSmith, can you shed any light?

Many thanks,
H.
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Old 04.03.2016, 14:40
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Re: Investment fund

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So I'm pretty impressed by the model & the performance of Fundsmith to date.
I've sent in my general application with my planned investment capital denominated in EUR. They have rejected this explaining that it is denominated in GBP. I had understand that there also is a EUR fund so I went back to them & they replied

"Fundsmith do offer a Euro Currency Fund called the Fundsmith Equity Fund Feeder. We do not administer this fund. For more information about this fund, please visit www.fundsmith.eu or call 00352 464 010 600."

Fund Feeder? This mean that the cash still goes into the same portfolio as the GBP investments just through a different channel?

We do not administer this Fund - I don't understand . It is a Fundsmith product, but they don't administer it.

FMF as you are au fait with fundSmith, can you shed any light?

Many thanks,
H.
All of the feeder fund is invested in the GBP fund in the UK.

I have most of my money in the feeder fund, it's administered from Luxembourg & designated a non UK fund which suits some investors. There are only a few hundred customers in feeder fund so you always speak to the same person.
Download the paperwork from www.fundsmith.eu
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Old 08.03.2016, 09:32
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Re: Investment fund

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So I'm pretty impressed by the model & the performance of Fundsmith to date.
I've sent in my general application with my planned investment capital denominated in EUR. They have rejected this explaining that it is denominated in GBP. I had understand that there also is a EUR fund so I went back to them & they replied

"Fundsmith do offer a Euro Currency Fund called the Fundsmith Equity Fund Feeder. We do not administer this fund. For more information about this fund, please visit www.fundsmith.eu or call 00352 464 010 600."

Fund Feeder? This mean that the cash still goes into the same portfolio as the GBP investments just through a different channel?

We do not administer this Fund - I don't understand . It is a Fundsmith product, but they don't administer it.

FMF as you are au fait with fundSmith, can you shed any light?

Many thanks,
H.
https://www.fundsmith.co.uk/docs/def....pdf?sfvrsn=14
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Old 17.07.2015, 13:07
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Re: Investment fund

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I have heard that VZ give good advice, https://www.vermoegenszentrum.ch/individuals.html
Does anyone have first-hand experience of VZ? They seem to be one of the very few independent advisers around?
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Old 15.08.2015, 21:11
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Re: Investment fund

https://fundlab.credit-suisse.com/ch...8?currency=CHF


The UK property market seems to be performing well at present.
Any thoughts on the above ETF via Credit Suisse?
I assume there is no 35% withholding tax as its not Swiss based and treated like shares, although it is distributing.
The GBP also seems to be strengthening against CHF at present.

Last edited by MarkH; 15.08.2015 at 21:23.
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Old 16.08.2015, 10:48
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Re: Investment fund

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https://fundlab.credit-suisse.com/ch...8?currency=CHF


The UK property market seems to be performing well at present.
Any thoughts on the above ETF via Credit Suisse?
I assume there is no 35% withholding tax as its not Swiss based and treated like shares, although it is distributing.
The GBP also seems to be strengthening against CHF at present.
Almost certainly will have 35% withholding tax of your a Swiss resident.

Fund is down in all currencies since 2008. Location Location Location is what it's about, they tried to beat the market & lost, not very impressive TBH.
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Old 16.08.2015, 14:12
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Re: Investment fund

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Almost certainly will have 35% withholding tax of your a Swiss resident.

Fund is down in all currencies since 2008. Location Location Location is what it's about, they tried to beat the market & lost, not very impressive TBH.
https://fundlab.credit-suisse.com/ch...8?currency=CHF

Is it not the point to buy when the investment product is low?
Buy low sell high?
It's been performing well since 2012.26% last year.
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Old 16.06.2015, 11:58
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Re: Investment fund

I'd be more concerned about just preserving my wealth, rather than trying to make it grow. I don't trust funds or financial institutions in the current climate. After marrying, my wife asked me to look at her portfolio. Among other things, she had Greek bonds, AIG, Leyman and Raiffeisen International. I said, "Sell all, buy physical gold" To my surprise, she did, and we've still got a roof over our heads. I've got to decide soon whether to take a lump sum from my Zweitesäule or monthly payments (I'm nearing 65). I just don't believe the insurer will be solvent in ten years. They are required to pay 6.8% interest on the principal. Since they can't earn that by banking (negative interest), they're doing derivatives and real estate. Deutsche Bank is exposed to 75 trillion in derivatives. Would you leave your money there? Thanks, but I just don't trust anyone now with my funds.
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Old 16.06.2015, 12:03
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Re: Investment fund

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I'd be more concerned about just preserving my wealth, rather than trying to make it grow. I don't trust funds or financial institutions in the current climate. After marrying, my wife asked me to look at her portfolio. Among other things, she had Greek bonds, AIG, Leyman and Raiffeisen International. I said, "Sell all, buy physical gold" To my surprise, she did, and we've still got a roof over our heads. I've got to decide soon whether to take a lump sum from my Zweitesäule or monthly payments (I'm nearing 65). I just don't believe the insurer will be solvent in ten years. They are required to pay 6.8% interest on the principal. Since they can't earn that by banking (negative interest), they're doing derivatives and real estate. Deutsche Bank is exposed to 75 trillion in derivatives. Would you leave your money there? Thanks, but I just don't trust anyone now with my funds.
I would never buy any bonds, equities always do better over the long run. A 65 year old should live 20 years so should have a long investment horizon.

What date was your advise? It seems unlikely that those investments would have been held during the time gold was a good investment.
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Valid logic, with one minor problem. If you're living wage to wage, i.e. you're poor, there are not much savings. Lifestyle does play a lot obviously, but even if you don't get an iPhone every year and you don't have a car (at all) you save something like 5-6k/year.

Given that the poor also don't have access (in many ways) to investments that can produce a significant yield, they're stuck with essentially no interest rate at all. And with 5-6k/annum nobody got rich, not in CH and not even in most EU countries...
Fund smith accept £100 a month or £1000 / 2000 euro min lump sum investment so the poor do indeed have access to such investments.
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Old 16.06.2015, 13:37
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Re: Investment fund

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investment so the poor do indeed have access to such investments.
Again, valid point, but "access" is not just affording the fees, or finding the investment/broker/whatever. Many people just don't "trust" investments without of course realising that everything has risk, including their salaries, their pensions, and the money in their bank accounts. Lacking access is more about a state of mind/matter of opinion.

I would struggle to find many middle-class people that would even consider investing at any point in their lives. I can't imagine 99% of the population in my hometown doing so for example.

So yeah, of course there are ways, and they're much more accessible than most people believe. But still, most people don't even consider it, it doesn't even cross their mind.

Maybe "access" was poor choice of word
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Old 16.06.2015, 14:19
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Re: Investment fund

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Again, valid point, but "access" is not just affording the fees, or finding the investment/broker/whatever. Many people just don't "trust" investments without of course realising that everything has risk, including their salaries, their pensions, and the money in their bank accounts. Lacking access is more about a state of mind/matter of opinion.

I would struggle to find many middle-class people that would even consider investing at any point in their lives. I can't imagine 99% of the population in my hometown doing so for example.

So yeah, of course there are ways, and they're much more accessible than most people believe. But still, most people don't even consider it, it doesn't even cross their mind.

Maybe "access" was poor choice of word
I always heard there were loads of investment clubs in the US & members all pooled $10 a month so they could invest in 1 stock a month.

If really only 1% of middle class invest that could be the reason why 1% of the population are very much richer, however it's not that simple. If you won't take any risk then you won't get rich from a pay check. Several years ago I mentioned on the forum when Apple shares collapsed I wanted them to fall further & invest 90% of my wealth in Apple, Apple was already my biggest stock holding, everybody here thought I was crazy as the informed opinion was Apple was toast. Without doubt hat was the easiest 100% plus profit I pulled off. I mentioned Fundsmith & again much skepticism since then up 50% & will be good to hold forever.

It's hardly surprising that business that have high costs of replacing equipment & retooling will ever make money in the long run, Airlines & car manufactures are 2 obvious examples of that.
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Old 16.06.2015, 14:57
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Re: Investment fund

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It's hardly surprising that business that have high costs of replacing equipment & retooling will ever make money in the long run, Airlines & car manufactures are 2 obvious examples of that.
I'd mention Intel as a counter example - massive investment in equipment, but a nice quarterly dividend and growth. To be fair having 80%+ market share doesn't hurt.

Apple was a gamble that paid off; Terry Smith would kick you out of Fundsmith though if he found out
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