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-   -   Pension - What percentage of my BVG (Pillar 2) payments go into my "pension pot" (https://www.englishforum.ch/finance-banking-taxation/236762-pension-what-percentage-my-bvg-pillar-2-payments-go-into-my-pension-pot.html)

Guest 06.07.2015 18:55

Pension - What percentage of my BVG (Pillar 2) payments go into my "pension pot"
 
There is some great information on this forum regarding Swiss pensions, but I have what I think is a simple question, that I just can't find the answer to.

What percentage of my BVG contributions (total - ie employer and employee) goes into to my "pension pot"?

Currently I do not see myself retiring here in Switzerland, so my long term plan is to take my "pension pot" to a non EU country... and errr... well, spend it.

As I understand it, the number that matters is displayed on my pension certificate as "Withdrawal benefit pursuant to Art. 15 FZG (Federal Law on Vesting in Pension Plans)". But I cant reconcile this number to amount I have contributed.

Does anyone have any information on this? Do different pension providers channel a higher percentage into the pot?

st2lemans 06.07.2015 18:58

Re: Pension - What percentage of my BVG (Pillar 2) payments go into my "pension pot"
 
All of it (employee + employer).

Tom

Guest 06.07.2015 19:18

Re: Pension - What percentage of my BVG (Pillar 2) payments go into my "pension pot"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andyseddon (Post 2415826)
There is some great information on this forum regarding Swiss pensions, but I have what I think is a simple question, that I just can't find the answer to.

What percentage of my BVG contributions (total - ie employer and employee) goes into to my "pension pot"?

Currently I do not see myself retiring here in Switzerland, so my long term plan is to take my "pension pot" to a non EU country... and errr... well, spend it.

As I understand it, the number that matters is displayed on my pension certificate as "Withdrawal benefit pursuant to Art. 15 FZG (Federal Law on Vesting in Pension Plans)". But I cant reconcile this number to amount I have contributed.

Does anyone have any information on this? Do different pension providers channel a higher percentage into the pot?

If you're moving to an EU country, to Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, Bulgaria or Romania, you cannot have your pension paid to you in cash if you're insured for old age, death and disability in your new country of residence. If you're moving to a different country, you can.

The amount you will be paid is
the amount you and your employers have paid over the past years (incl. interest),
plus other vested pension benefits which you received e.g. through divorce or voluntary payments (incl. interest),
minus money you have had paid out to you or a past spouse already due to divorce, for property payment or for an early retirement.

Source
HTH

me.anon 06.07.2015 20:02

Re: Pension - What percentage of my BVG (Pillar 2) payments go into my "pension pot"
 
There is an insurance element in the contributions which is not refundable to you. In my case, but maybe it is not always the case, the employer paid it all, about 2.6% of the insured salary.

Guest 06.07.2015 20:09

Thanks for replies.

Perhaps I didn't explain my question well enough, but I still don't have the answer to my question.

Perhaps this is just my pension, but even in my pension certificate I have the numbers that show not 100% of my contributions go into my savings (what I think of as my pension pot). This is what I have in my yearly certificate (sorry for my use of algebra):

Financing Total premium
---------- -----------------
Annual Premium x CHFs
Of which, savings premium y CHFs

The y value is about 86% of the x value. Or put another way 14% of my contributions are not going to my savings. I presume they are taken by my pension company for services or insurances.

Is this normal? Or has my company set up a questionable pension scheme?

Thanks me.anon thats what I was trying to get at. So the 14% I am paying looks to be VERY high!

Troublawesome 06.07.2015 20:12

Re: Pension - What percentage of my BVG (Pillar 2) payments go into my "pension pot"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by st2lemans (Post 2415831)
All of it (employee + employer).

Tom

Wrong.

fatmanfilms 06.07.2015 20:27

Re: Pension - What percentage of my BVG (Pillar 2) payments go into my "pension pot"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by st2lemans (Post 2415831)
All of it (employee + employer).

Tom

Unfortunately not, about 15-26% is spent on 'insurance', so the return after tax is virtually zero.

Kamarate 06.07.2015 20:43

Re: Pension - What percentage of my BVG (Pillar 2) payments go into my "pension pot"
 
Your risk contributions don't go into your pension pot. Typically, a percentage of your salary is taken to go into your savings and a smaller part for "risk" i.e. In case of death or disability to cover the related benefits to be paid out.

me.anon 06.07.2015 20:55

Re: Pension - What percentage of my BVG (Pillar 2) payments go into my "pension pot"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andyseddon (Post 2415873)
Thanks me.anon thats what I was trying to get at. So the 14% I am paying looks to be VERY high!

Actually not. The insurance contribution was 2.6 % of my insured salary. The total pension contribution was 19% of my insured salary. That is a ratio of 2.6 : 19 (i.e. 13.68 %)

Neel 06.07.2015 23:45

Re: Pension - What percentage of my BVG (Pillar 2) payments go into my "pension pot"
 
What percentage of BVG and AHV contributions one gets back if permanently moves out of Switzerland to non-EU Country ?

me.anon 07.07.2015 08:24

Re: Pension - What percentage of my BVG (Pillar 2) payments go into my "pension pot"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andyseddon (Post 2415826)
. . . Currently I do not see myself retiring here in Switzerland, so my long term plan is to take my "pension pot" to a non EU country... and errr... well, spend it. . . .

Also, just be aware that you are making the assumption that, in the future, it will be just as easy to get your "pension pot" paid out, as it is now.;)

fatmanfilms 07.07.2015 09:20

Re: Pension - What percentage of my BVG (Pillar 2) payments go into my "pension pot"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by me.anon (Post 2416029)
Also, just be aware that you are making the assumption that, in the future, it will be just as easy to get your "pension pot" paid out, as it is now.;)

Well it's dead easy now & you don't have to go to a non EU country in many cases.

CBeinG 29.09.2015 18:13

Re: Pension - What percentage of my BVG (Pillar 2) payments go into my "pension pot"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by me.anon (Post 2415900)
Actually not. The insurance contribution was 2.6 % of my insured salary. The total pension contribution was 19% of my insured salary. That is a ratio of 2.6 : 19 (i.e. 13.68 %)


Hi, I am still trying to make sense of these.


Who / what determines the % to pay against the insured salary? I understand that there is the BVG salary, and the full amount on salary to be insured can be higher than this. I imagine that in your case, that % figure is 19% based on what you wrote, but is this level determined by the regulations or you?


Assuming 19% is indeed the level elected / prescribed, and if you were to go by what is stipulated as a minimum by regulations, is the employer paying half of that 19%?

fatmanfilms 29.09.2015 18:16

Re: Pension - What percentage of my BVG (Pillar 2) payments go into my "pension pot"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by celestialbeing (Post 2457728)
Hi, I am still trying to make sense of these.


Who / what determines the % to pay against the insured salary? I understand that there is the BVG salary, and the full amount on salary to be insured can be higher than this. I imagine that in your case, that % figure is 19% based on what you wrote, but is this level determined by the regulations or you?


Assuming 19% is indeed the level elected / prescribed, and if you were to go by what is stipulated as a minimum by regulations, is the employer paying half of that 19%?

The employer can choose the amount of pension they provide, however there is a minimum amount that has to be paid by law on a slice of the salary. The employer has to pay a minimum of 50%, however could pay 100%

CBeinG 29.09.2015 18:24

Re: Pension - What percentage of my BVG (Pillar 2) payments go into my "pension pot"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 2457729)
The employer can choose the amount of pension they provide, however there is a minimum amount that has to be paid by law on a slice of the salary. The employer has to pay a minimum of 50%, however could pay 100%



The amount that an employer chooses - is that a % on the BVG (as a minimum) as opposed to the full insured salary?

me.anon 29.09.2015 18:37

Re: Pension - What percentage of my BVG (Pillar 2) payments go into my "pension pot"
 
In my case, the employer's contribution to my pension fund was fixed according to an age related scale ranging from zero percent of the insured salary (for workers under 22 years old) to 13.0 % (for workers of 55 or over).
The insurance element was 2.65% of the insured salary (not age dependent) and was paid wholly by the employer.
My own contribution was also age dependent and I could also chose between a standard, plus and extra contribution level (e.g. for a 55 year old could chose 9.5%, 11.0% or 19%).
This should all be described in the rules of your pension fund and you should get an annual statement explaining what has been saved on your behalf.
The insured salary, in my case, was 100% of my salary.

fatmanfilms 29.09.2015 18:43

Re: Pension - What percentage of my BVG (Pillar 2) payments go into my "pension pot"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by celestialbeing (Post 2457733)
The amount that an employer chooses - is that a % on the BVG (as a minimum) as opposed to the full insured salary?

If the employer gives any pension above the minimum BVG it's up to him, many only pay pension as required by law. For the BVG portion the Employer must pay at least 50%.

Why not just say what your employer is offering to pay & cut out the run around!

CBeinG 29.09.2015 18:48

Re: Pension - What percentage of my BVG (Pillar 2) payments go into my "pension pot"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by me.anon (Post 2457742)
In my case, the employer's contribution to my pension fund was fixed according to an age related scale ranging from zero percent of the insured salary (for workers under 22 years old) to 13.0 % (for workers of 55 or over).
The insurance element was 2.65% of the insured salary (not age dependent) and was paid wholly by the employer.
My own contribution was also age dependent and I could also chose between a standard, plus and extra contribution level (e.g. for a 55 year old could chose 9.5%, 11.0% or 19%).
This should all be described in the rules of your pension fund and you should get an annual statement explaining what has been saved on your behalf.
The insured salary, in my case, was 100% of my salary.



Hi me.anon,


I can see a number of variables here:


1) The insured salary amount, which may or may not differ from the entire salary amount.
2) You own contribution, which has a set of age-dependent-predetermined tiers, from which you select one.
3) The employer's contribution, which is prescribed and tiered depending on age - and this is applied against the insured salary amount, which in your case is the entirety of your salary.
4) All of the above is fine, provided the employer meets the minimum stipulated by regulations i.e. employer contributes an amount at least equal to the employee's contribution on the BVG salary, and the employer contribution here is above and beyond that required for UVG.


Have I got it correct, now?

CBeinG 29.09.2015 18:51

Re: Pension - What percentage of my BVG (Pillar 2) payments go into my "pension pot"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 2457746)
If the employer gives any pension above the minimum BVG it's up to him, many only pay pension as required by law. For the BVG portion the Employer must pay at least 50%.

Why not just say what your employer is offering to pay & cut out the run around!


I only have contract offers on the table at present. A permie offer is likely on the way. This line of questions is to help me understand how benefits are quantified so as to help with the comparison tests eventually, when I have to choose between the two.

For now, it helps me understand what an approximate permie remuneration equivalent could look like.

me.anon 29.09.2015 19:09

Re: Pension - What percentage of my BVG (Pillar 2) payments go into my "pension pot"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by celestialbeing (Post 2457748)
Hi me.anon,


I can see a number of variables here:


1) The insured salary amount, which may or may not differ from the entire salary amount.
2) You own contribution, which has a set of age-dependent-predetermined tiers, from which you select one.
3) The employer's contribution, which is prescribed and tiered depending on age - and this is applied against the insured salary amount, which in your case is the entirety of your salary.
4) All of the above is fine, provided the employer meets the minimum stipulated by regulations i.e. employer contributes an amount at least equal to the employee's contribution on the BVG salary, and the employer contribution here is above and beyond that required for UVG.


Have I got it correct, now?

1) correct. If the salary is over a certain amount ( I don't know the figure) the employer can cap the insured salary at this level. My pension scheme was quite generous and had no cap.
2) correct.
3) correct.
4) I'm not sure I fully understand what you are getting at here. In principle, the law specifies minimum contributions (employee/employer). Important for you is what your pension scheme specifies, and this will be defined in the rules "Ger: Reglement" of which you should obtain a copy.


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