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-   -   Multi Currency Credit Card ["Revolut"] (https://www.englishforum.ch/finance-banking-taxation/240252-multi-currency-credit-card-revolut.html)

ChrisNeedsToKnow 11.09.2015 13:00

Multi Currency Credit Card ["Revolut"]
 
I just came across a website/service called "Revolut".

www.revolut.com

In essence they offer an account with an attached credit card.

The account has 3 currencies (as of now), EUR, GBP and USD. Apparently you can transfer any of the 3 currencies to your Revolut account, then FX these 3 currencies at interbank rate and hold your funds in above 3 currencies.

You can then spend those 3 currencies with the credit card, 1:1 without any fees, or transfer them to an account in the other currency.

Furthermore it's possible to use the credit card in quite a bunch of other currencies, but they're always converted when you spend. It's not possible to hold funds in those currencies (yet).

Not sure about anything as I just found out about them, but seems like a cool offer.

CHF missing as a holding currency is a bit of a blow. The only one I found so far.

GenevaSculler 11.09.2015 13:13

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Interesting idea, thanks. Do you know anything about Optimal Payments which apparently is the company behind it?

ChrisNeedsToKnow 11.09.2015 13:16

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
No idea whatsoever.

I just found them, and now transferred 5 to see if and how this works. Im still slightly sceptical, but I did find some news coverage and apparently they raised a few millions starting capital. So I guess they're definitely not just a fraud. Everything else Ill check out by testing from here.

GenevaSculler 11.09.2015 13:29

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisNeedsToKnow (Post 2447831)
No idea whatsoever.

I just found them, and now transferred 5 to see if and how this works. Im still slightly sceptical, but I did find some news coverage and apparently they raised a few millions starting capital. So I guess they're definitely not just a fraud. Everything else Ill check out by testing from here.

OK thanks - will be interested to hear your feedback.

Guest 11.09.2015 13:43

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Isn't this more a debit card ?

ChrisNeedsToKnow 11.09.2015 13:47

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Quote:

Isn't this more a debit card ?
I guess it's absolutely a debit card. Yes.

Funnily enough they provided me with the card details over the app instantly. No checks no nothing, the card is up and ready for usage. Strange.

Also managed to instantly top up the account via another credit card, which worked out on the spot.

Now I just don't have anything I want to buy right now, otherwise Id try to use the card right away.

The_Love_Doctor 11.09.2015 13:57

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Quote:

Isn't this more a debit card ?
A pre-paid credit card.

But what they're doing is bold indeed... Offering interbank rate as the exchange rate, I'm defo signing up.

Phil_MCR 11.09.2015 14:00

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
hmm. i'm also using these 4 currencies. my way so far has been to:

have a gbp and chf credit card.

for eur and usd, use cash.

i'd be interested in getting a usd card. for eur, i could live with remaining in cash.

The_Love_Doctor 11.09.2015 14:13

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil_MCR (Post 2447864)
for eur and usd, use cash.

I went as far as opening a EUR account in Switzerland with a debit card where I have to pay a fee every month and it includes a debit card linked directly to it. But the only thing that is free is withdrawing cash and wiring money into the account in EUR. Any other transaction attracts commission.

Also tried to open an account in Germany with an attached credit card but that got rejected presumably because I don't have any credit history in Germany.

If the model for these guys work, it would be great, but they need a lot of volume to generate any profit from fees generated by people using the card.

I'm sure they will up their fees eventually but worth a go for now.

ChrisNeedsToKnow 11.09.2015 14:24

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Love_Doctor (Post 2447873)
...but that got rejected presumably because I don't have any credit history in Germany...

I have a www.dkb.de - was that rejected?

Otherwise, maybe try www.number26.de. You need a German address, but it's in and they don't check any credit history because it's strictly credit based.

The_Love_Doctor 11.09.2015 14:46

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisNeedsToKnow (Post 86268)
hmm. i'm also using these 4 currencies. my way I have a www.dkb.de - was that rejected?

Otherwise, maybe try www.number26.de. You need a German address, but it's in and they don't check any credit history because it's strictly credit based.


The dkb is the one that got rejected indeed. Not sure why but I guess I was just unlucky or didn't earn enough! :eek:

ChrisNeedsToKnow 11.09.2015 15:12

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Love_Doctor (Post 2447896)
The dkb is the one that got rejected indeed. Not sure why but I guess I was just unlucky or didn't earn enough! :eek:

I don't earn much, my DKB-account is usually sitting with an odd 100 ready to be spent whenever in the -zone. I just feed the account more if I plan to spend more.

My wife opened one just to have her separate EUR-credit card. No problems whatsoever.

Strange!

The_Love_Doctor 11.09.2015 15:35

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Yeh it's strange but not that strange, having worked for a retail bank many years ago, these kind of things are usually automated and probably something in my file didn't meet their Criteria who knows. They of course wouldn't tell you why.

I rang them and got the usual response in these scenarios... "We don't have to tell you why". I looked online and the reasons for rejection could be one of many but mainly it's either the Credit Check had a low score or the income part for someone residing in Switzerland was too low.

Their loss really my commission will now go to Revolut and their card issuer "OPTIMAL PAYMENTS LIMITED"... it's also one less account to keep track of! :D

ChrisNeedsToKnow 11.09.2015 15:40

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Love_Doctor (Post 2447920)
...and their card issuer "OPTIMAL PAYMENTS LIMITED"...

Do you know anything about these guys?

I mean, how reliable are they, and why can they open accounts without any checks? I wonder if Ill actually receive the credit card in the mail as promised. I guess Ill have to wait for roughly a week to find out.

The_Love_Doctor 11.09.2015 15:44

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
More info on their Terms & Conditions. You're supposed to read them before you sign up ;)

Link: https://revolut.com/terms

No info about them. But they say in the terms that they are regulated by the FCA in the UK. So if I could be bothered to check that what they say I would check the registration on the FCA website.

They could open an account with no checks because it's a pre-paid credit card which you can normally just get from any card issuer you just need to register it to your name nothing else is needed.

If you start transferring unusual amounts of money and spending more than 5000 a month they will start asking questions and ask you to provide more info, they might want to confirm your identity or ask for proof of source of funds.

It's all in their terms and conditions.

The_Love_Doctor 11.09.2015 15:45

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Just did a quick search on the FCA website:

https://register.fca.org.uk/ShPo_Fir...000000m4IWvAAM

Edit: Interesting that on the Passport Out section of the FCA website for the company with registration: 900015 that Switzerland is not listed as a country where they are authorised to provide financial services!!!!

Also interesting is that a previous name of the company is Neteller! Not sure if it's related to https://www.neteller.com/en.

ChrisNeedsToKnow 11.09.2015 16:07

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
What I don't understand from Revolut:

You can actually hold 3 currencies (EUR/GBP/USD), but pay in many currencies.

If you pay in any of the "many" currencies, to which of the "holding" currencies will amounts be converted? I didn't find any option to influence this.

GenevaSculler 11.09.2015 16:13

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Also, given you have to transfer your money to them prior to purchasing anything, what risk is their of them failing and your money vanishing, given I've never heard of Optimal Payments Ltd...?

GenevaSculler 11.09.2015 16:15

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Love_Doctor (Post 2447929)
Also interesting is that a previous name of the company is Neteller! Not sure if it's related to https://www.neteller.com/en.

It is related to them:

https://www.neteller.com/en/about

The_Love_Doctor 11.09.2015 16:17

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisNeedsToKnow (Post 2447941)
What I don't understand from Revolut:

You can actually hold 3 currencies (EUR/GBP/USD), but pay in many currencies.

If you pay in any of the "many" currencies, to which of the "holding" currencies will amounts be converted? I didn't find any option to influence this.

Interesting question, which they should easily be able to answer. They must have an algo to decide which of the currencies they use to fund the purchases in non EUR, USD or GBP transactions.

In any case it shouldn't matter that much as they use the interbank rate as the basis for conversions, so converting from EUR to CHF or GBP to CHF should yield the same result but of course it should be easily identifiable to the customer what the Algo is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenevaSculler (Post 2447946)
It is related to them:

https://www.neteller.com/en/about

Interesting... So what you effectively have is an online wallet (with a 0% funding fee!) with a pre-paid credit card attached to it! :D

ChrisNeedsToKnow 11.09.2015 16:25

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Love_Doctor (Post 2447949)
...They must have an algo to decide...

Why algo, why not let the user decide?

The_Love_Doctor 11.09.2015 16:30

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisNeedsToKnow (Post 2447954)
Why algo, why not let the user decide?

Because this is the first credit card I see where it's denominated in more than one currency.

Let's say you have 500, $400 and EUR300.

If you decide to spend anything lower than the balance in any of those currencies it's obvious that the money should be spent from the existing balance.

If you decide to spend an amount higher than the total balance of any of the individual balances (regardless of the spending currency) then there most be an order of which balance will be exhausted first (higher balance first? lower balance first? does it just get rejected?) who knows...

ChrisNeedsToKnow 11.09.2015 16:42

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Love_Doctor (Post 2447962)
...who knows...

Next time I buy small items on aliexpress.com Ill try to figure it out.

The_Love_Doctor 11.09.2015 16:45

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
PS: I just confirmed my ID with them using my Swiss Drivers License and my phone camera. Just go to profile on the app then identity and follow the instructions. Apparently it's needed if you fund the card by more than 1500 a year.

The_Love_Doctor 14.09.2015 09:25

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Follow up guys...

So after loading up the virtual credit card with and exchanging some to EUR using the rate at the weekend which I was very happy with, I was actually unable to use the card.

I sent a quick message to their support on Sunday and they got back quite quickly and said that following their policy I would have to send them a statement of the account I used to top up the card. Fair enough... but at least tell me about it before I start trying to make payments with it. :confused:

Anyway I'm still waiting for the transaction to show up on my account before I email them a copy / screenshot so they can unblock the card. It's interesting how they get people to sign up quickly and then deal with problems later so if you do decide to get one of these cards bear in mind that it's not instantaneous as you might think, at least it wasn't for me.

I also found some more info about the company online for anyone who might be interested in knowing more:

Article on Techcrunch.com: here

Money Saving Expert: here

ChrisNeedsToKnow 14.09.2015 10:38

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Also have some feedback:

I charged Revolut through another debit card (€10), and also via bank transfer from a German €-account (€5).

The amount from the other debit card was available immediately, the amount by bank transfer within 3 hours. Considering this was a SEPA-transaction from a German EUR-account to Revolut's UK-based EUR-account I found 3 hours more then fast.

Just for the fun of it I changed some EURs to GBPs and left the USD on zero. So my balances were:
  • GBP 7.30
  • EUR 5
  • USD 0
I just bought an inexpensive item from aliexpress.com for USD 1.46. I really wanted to see where they'd take the USD-funds from.

USD 1.46 were exchanged into EUR 1.29 and debited from the EUR-balance.

So I guess the algorhythm to be:
  1. Debit from original currency, if available (would've been USD)
  2. Otherwise, debit from currency last charged (in this case EUR)
  3. Debit from 3rd currency
Also, I guess, I didn't run into The_Love_Doctor's kind of troube because of the insignificant amounts.

The_Love_Doctor 14.09.2015 13:28

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
What's quite interesting is that you can also use this exchange mechanism to speculate on spot rates between those 3 currency pairs commission free! :D

They don't exclude it from their T&C from what I've read, and they don't consider it to be abuse of the system but they might consider it to be against the intended use of the system. :msncool:

ChrisNeedsToKnow 14.09.2015 13:37

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Love_Doctor (Post 2449158)
...speculate on spot rates between those 3 currency pairs...

Last Friday I exchanged EUR 10 into GBP 7.30. Indeed the system showed that I could change GBP 7.30 back into EUR 10 immediately after the transaction.

Since then I lost EUR 0.07, as right now I could change GBP 7.30 back into EUR 9.93. I guess that's the risk of "speculating" :msncool:.

I tried to change EUR 0.01 into GBP 0.01; do that 10 times and change the GBP 0.10 "back" into EUR 0.13. I guess they anticipated someone trying this, it's not possible.

Overall summary so far: Im still impressed :msngrin:

ChrisNeedsToKnow 15.09.2015 14:33

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Support is fast and responsive. :)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Christian
Date: 14 September 2015 at 11:51
Subject: technical question
To: support@revolut.com

Dear Support,

I wonder about the following scenarios:

Scenario1:
I have credit on my Revolut card in EUR and GBP, but no USD.

Now I buy something in USD. Which balance (EUR/GBP) will the USD be taken from?

Scenario2:
I have credit on my Revolut card in EUR and GBP and USD.

Now I buy something in another supported currency, example PLN. Which balance (EUR/GBP/USD) will the PLN be taken from?


Is there a way to predict this?

Thanks and regards,
Christian


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Edward
Date: 15 September 2015 at 13:41
Subject: Re: technical question
To: Christian


Hi Christian,

1. The card prioritises in the following order:
- Local currency of the merchant/ATM
- Your base currency (eg. for a UK resident this would be GBP)(If you signed up outside of USA/GB/Eurozone, USD will be your default base currency)
- The final currency


2. This depends on where you signed up.
- Base Currency (USD if you are outside USA/GB/Eurozone)
- The next largest balance
- The final balance


Does that help?

Thank you.

The_Love_Doctor 17.09.2015 16:03

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisNeedsToKnow (Post 2449766)

1. The card prioritises in the following order:
- Local currency of the merchant/ATM
- Your base currency (eg. for a UK resident this would be GBP)(If you signed up outside of USA/GB/Eurozone, USD will be your default base currency)
- The final currency


2. This depends on where you signed up.
- Base Currency (USD if you are outside USA/GB/Eurozone)
- The next largest balance
- The final balance


Very good :)

So in other words:

The default behaviour is: Base, largest to smallest.

Otherwise: go for the matching transaction currency then revert to default behaviour.


PS: did you get your physical card yet? I'm still waiting for mine.
PPS: I managed to get the account unblocked after providing them with a statement of the account I used to fund the card, but I think the reason they blocked it is nothing to do with the amount but rather they told me that they don't allow transactions with gaming / gambling merchants (Pokerstars is where I tried to deposit of EUR100.-).

ChrisNeedsToKnow 17.09.2015 16:19

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Love_Doctor (Post 2451015)
...The default behaviour is: Base, largest to smallest.

Otherwise: go for the matching transaction currency then revert to default behaviour...

I imagine it as a 4-step process:
  1. transaction currency (if transaction in USD/GBP/EUR)
  2. base currency balance (USD for Swiss registration)
  3. second balance
  4. final balance
One could wonder
  • what happens if the balance which first matches isn't high enough?
    • transaction declined?
    • move to next currency in full?
    • reduce first balance to zero, take rest from next balance?
  • How is "highest balance" determined?
    • Pure number (i.e. 99 USD is counted as more than 98 GBP)
    • Or is everything calculated into a base balance (probably USD), and then it's determined from there
In the end not important, but I prefer to understand such things. :msnnerd:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Love_Doctor (Post 2451015)
PS: did you get your physical card yet? I'm still waiting for mine.

Im also still waiting. The App sais it was posted yesterday, and I guess it's sent from the UK. Letters from UK --> CH usually take 2 days, so Im sort-of expecting the card tomorrow/Saturday-ish.

donpiedro 17.09.2015 16:20

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
My card is on the way too! Thanks for the tip :msngrin:

The app is pretty efficient I must say!

The_Love_Doctor 17.09.2015 16:21

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Mine should be on it's way too... I even have a pin but no card :D

So actually if I had an old card, a card reader / writer and some online software I could probably program the thing into the magnetic strip myself. Or maybe this doesn't work anymore since the introduction of chip n' pin :msnnerd:

ChrisNeedsToKnow 17.09.2015 16:30

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Love_Doctor (Post 2451031)
...have a pin but no card...

I can't access my PIN. The option "show PIN" appeared, but when I click on it nothing happens.

newtoswitz 17.09.2015 17:01

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Thanks for this - shame they don't have a CHF option, but I'll be switching to spending my GBP funds in Europe and save the commission :)

The_Love_Doctor 17.09.2015 17:05

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by newtoswitz (Post 2451073)
Thanks for this - shame they don't have a CHF option, but I'll be switching to spending my GBP funds in Europe and save the commission :)

It's a start-up and they will for sure have more funding currencies. Although the Swissie might be a tricky one with it being a safe haven currency and all they might not be able to stem the inflow on their platform :D

But then again on their facebook page they're talking of even being able to pay using bitcoin! What???! :eek:

They're certainly not holding down on their ambitions!

ChrisNeedsToKnow 17.09.2015 17:06

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by newtoswitz (Post 2451073)
...shame they don't have a CHF option

Considering there's negative interest on CHFs they'd make a loss from just parking customer's funds. So my feeling is this won't be added any time soon. However, obviously, I also hope so.

The more currencies they add, the more they'd have to change the layout of the app. The currently 3 "spinning currencies" (no idea how else to put it) can only work with so many of them.

Anyway, nice to see so many people sign up. I guess if the service is decent and the product works as described, we might all be happy customers. I hope so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Love_Doctor (Post 2451074)
...using bitcoin...

What???! :eek: :msngrin:

The_Love_Doctor 17.09.2015 17:18

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisNeedsToKnow (Post 2451075)

What???! :eek: :msngrin:

Theoratically feasible. They would have to have a way of allowing people to load their bitcoins onto their pre-paid card and then sell bit coins against $. They would have to allow for this to filter through the bit coin exchanges etc before being able to use the $ or whatever other currency.

A bit too ambitious but will set them apart.

ChrisNeedsToKnow 18.09.2015 16:53

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Just found another piece of the puzzle:

I had GBP 0.75 credit (USD 0; EUR 10), when a charge of GBP 1.00 came in.

The GBP 1 was charged in full from the EUR balance, the GBP 0.75 were left untouched.

.
.
Furthermore the Android-App was updated this morning. Subsequently I managed to see my PIN, and it's also possible to change it directly in the app.

The_Love_Doctor 18.09.2015 17:23

Re: Multi Currency Credit Card
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisNeedsToKnow (Post 2451775)
Just found another piece of the puzzle:

I had GBP 0.75 credit (USD 0; EUR 10), when a charge of GBP 1.00 came in.

The GBP 1 was charged in full from the EUR balance, the GBP 0.75 were left untouched.

I can just see these kind of things cropping up more and more and people annoying them with questions about the behaviour of the algo they use to debit the amounts from the multiple currencies.

I can see them setting up an option to say which order of priority the customer would like the money to be changed.

To be fair if they do it at interbank rate then it doesn't really matter which currency is used up. But this begs a more important question as to how they are actually hedging their exposure to the currency movements, as it's not always possible to meet the demand from someone else trying to do the opposite transaction for every single customer. So they have to take some risk or/and feed the FX transaction to an external bank at some point.

It's an ambitious product and I would advise caution for anyone using it, the cost of using this card will certainly rise in 12 months time once they've figured out how much it's costing them to operate their business.


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