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Old 27.05.2016, 22:22
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Understanding CH Taxes - Gemeinde, Kanton, etc

Hi All

I have a question on the information which can be extracted on this official link:

http://www.estv2.admin.ch/steuerfuss/my_select_alle.php

When I look at famous Zug and Schwyz Kantons and their Gemeindes, it would seem SZ's Kantonal taxes are far higher than those in Zug AND also the Gemeinde numbers are higher than the Zug ones.

However, when I simulate withholding taxes using also this official site,
http://www.estv2.admin.ch/e/dienstle...er/2015/sz.php

I get a lower tax component in Schwyz.

Can anyone explain this to me, please?

Thanks
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Old 27.05.2016, 22:46
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Re: Understanding CH Taxes - Gemeinde, Kanton, etc

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Can anyone explain this to me, please?
A "Steuerfuss" is a multiplier / factor applied to (effectively) the tax rate.

You are interested in the tax rate itself.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steuerfuss
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Old 28.05.2016, 09:57
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Re: Understanding CH Taxes - Gemeinde, Kanton, etc

Witholding tax is set at the average tax rate across the canton, each town or village sets the tax rate to cover their budget.

http://www.estv2.admin.ch/e/dienstle...uerrechner.htm
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Old 28.05.2016, 11:48
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Re: Understanding CH Taxes - Gemeinde, Kanton, etc

still, not getting it.

Is Freienbach, sz, cheapr than Cham zg?
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Old 28.05.2016, 12:00
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Re: Understanding CH Taxes - Gemeinde, Kanton, etc

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still, not getting it.

Is Freienbach, sz, cheapr than Cham zg?
Depends on your individual situation.

For laughs, I just ran two comparisons (on Comparis) assuming normal taxation, not Quellensteuer.

At 120K income, married no kids, Cham wins by a whole CHF 150 per year.
At 250K income, married no kids, Freienbach wins by ca. 7500 per year.
at 500K income, married no kids, Freienbach wins by ca. 15K per year.

On Quellensteuer at 9999 income per month, ZG wins over SZ by ca 3000 per year.

So.... YMMV, depending on your income, civil status, number of kids, religion, deductions, etc.

Use the Comparis calculator for a quick look, entering in your own situation.


FYI, one of the reasons that ZG wins over SZ on Quellensteuer is that in SZ only Ausserschwyz, and then really only Freienbach and Feusisberg, are ultra low tax. The rest of the canton is not bad for tax, but certainly not low.

Last edited by meloncollie; 28.05.2016 at 12:30.
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Old 28.05.2016, 12:02
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Re: Understanding CH Taxes - Gemeinde, Kanton, etc

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Is Freienbach, sz, cheapr than Cham zg?
It (probably) depends.

Just a few factors:
- tax rate of Kanton
- multiplier of Gemeinde and Kanton
- tax rules in places in Kanton
- your income

That's why the only meaningful approach for comparison is to enter as many of your personal factors into a tax estimator for each location of interest.

Try https://en.comparis.ch/steuern/steue...vergleich.aspx for some very rough numbers, for starters. Next, try a tax consultant to optimize your location of residence based on your own personal factors.

Keep in mind that
- cost of health insurance (KVG) does vary across locations
- often cost of rent is inversely proportional to tax heaviness
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Old 28.05.2016, 15:29
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Re: Understanding CH Taxes - Gemeinde, Kanton, etc

Above a certain level of wealth, the wealth tax becomes a differentiator as well.
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Old 28.05.2016, 17:01
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Re: Understanding CH Taxes - Gemeinde, Kanton, etc

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still, not getting it.

Is Freienbach, sz, cheapr than Cham zg?
You can use the Steuerfuss only for comparison within a canton.

As others have said the Steuerfuss is a multiplier of the cantonal tax rate (Steuertarif). Each canton can freely choose and design the tax rate as they wish (more or less). Each canton and each commune can choose its Steuerfuss.

Why the separation between tax rate and Steuerfuss? Tax rate is set by a law, it can not be changed easily. It is normally only changed when the tax politics changes considerably or after a period with high inflation. Steuerfuss is set by ordinance, it can be changed year by year and adapted to the financial needs of a commune or canton.

O.k. it is actually worse, because it is not always a multiplier of the cantonal tax rate: https://www.estv.admin.ch/dam/estv/d...euerfuss_d.pdf

Remember: The tax comparison calculators can only give an estimation. One canton may permit more and other deductions then an other.
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Old 28.05.2016, 17:32
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Re: Understanding CH Taxes - Gemeinde, Kanton, etc

ok, I ran simulators and saw that in OUR case, Freienbach SZ beats any Gemeinde in Zug. Funny, but true.

question: if it comes down to moving to a place because of the low taxes in that particular place, such as Freienbach, what are the possibilities the Gemeinde would vote in say 12-24 months and decide to change its tax rates?
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Old 28.05.2016, 18:25
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Re: Understanding CH Taxes - Gemeinde, Kanton, etc

Steuerfuss in canton SZ, 2008-2016:

http://www.sz.ch/xml_1/internet/de/a...2/d72/p855.cfm

There has been much wailing over looming deficits in the canton, and gnashing of teeth in Ausserschwyz as discussions turn to whetherg the wealthier Gemeinden should shoulder a larger share of the burden, or not. And then there is the whole NFA kerfluffel.

But despite all that, while the Steuerfuss does bounce around here and there, the resulting change isn't all that dramatic.

Granted, when a gazillionaire (or three) has a bad year (or three) resulting in lower revenues to the village, tax rates for all can be impacted...


(Zug is not free of 'D' word fears, either. They are overall a wealthier canton, though, and so are probably better placed to weather the storm.)



But there is more to life than taxes.

Where do you really want to live?
What sort of life do you live now, what do you like to do in your free time?
Do you have a family?
Do you have children, are schools important?
What type of housing are you looking for?
Where will you commute to?
Where and how do you spend your leisure time?
How important is an international environment?
How is your German? How is your Swiss German?
How important is it to you that you feel part of the community?
Do you envision yourself applying for Swiss citizenship sometime?

Honestly - both villages are nice. Both have positives and negatives, depending on your outlook.


Were it me, I would say if you have children, put local schools at the top of your research list. If it's still close to even, choose the village where you find the housing that best meets your needs. Everything else will fall into place.



ETA:

Note the change in the cantonal rate over the year - 120 up until 2014. Then 145 in 2015, 170 in 2016. As you make your decision, do make sure you are running your numbers on 2016 data. (But past performance is no guarantee of future results, and all that jazz. )

Last edited by meloncollie; 28.05.2016 at 18:47.
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Old 28.05.2016, 18:44
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Re: Understanding CH Taxes - Gemeinde, Kanton, etc

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Hi All

I have a question on the information which can be extracted on this official link:

http://www.estv2.admin.ch/steuerfuss/my_select_alle.php

When I look at famous Zug and Schwyz Kantons and their Gemeindes, it would seem SZ's Kantonal taxes are far higher than those in Zug AND also the Gemeinde numbers are higher than the Zug ones.

However, when I simulate withholding taxes using also this official site,
http://www.estv2.admin.ch/e/dienstle...er/2015/sz.php

I get a lower tax component in Schwyz.

Can anyone explain this to me, please?

Thanks
Thanks for bring in the topic.
I have been looking at it for a while but in a different aspect.
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Old 28.05.2016, 20:46
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Re: Understanding CH Taxes - Gemeinde, Kanton, etc

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FYI, one of the reasons that ZG wins over SZ on Quellensteuer is that in SZ only Ausserschwyz, and then really only Freienbach and Feusisberg, are ultra low tax. The rest of the canton is not bad for tax, but certainly not low.
Also Wollerau, but basically Birzirk Höfe, then a step up to Bezirk Märch, then quite a step to the rest of Schwyz.

Frankly if you are paying Quellensteuer only then property prices are more than likely going to wipe out most if not all and more of the tax savings.
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Old 28.05.2016, 21:16
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Re: Understanding CH Taxes - Gemeinde, Kanton, etc

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Also Wollerau, .
Oops, you are right - I keep forgetting that Wollerau is not part of Freienbach...
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Old 29.05.2016, 10:46
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Re: Understanding CH Taxes - Gemeinde, Kanton, etc

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Frankly if you are paying Quellensteuer only then property prices are more than likely going to wipe out most if not all and more of the tax savings.
NOt sure I understand this eyebeebe? What do you mean?
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Old 29.05.2016, 11:06
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Re: Understanding CH Taxes - Gemeinde, Kanton, etc

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NOt sure I understand this eyebeebe? What do you mean?
If you earn less than 120k a year i.e. you are only paying Quellensteuer (assuming foreigner with no C permit), in Schwyz in particular you will be paying the cantonal average tax rate, which is higher than what you would pay in e.g. Freienbach. The difference between the Zurich Quellensteuer rates and Schwyz at lower income levels may only save you CHF 100 a month, which is likely to be swallowed up and more by higher rents at the lower end of the market, increased commuting costs and lower convenience. In Zug you would save more on the Quellensteuer vs Zurich (and Schwyz), but the rents are higher again, particularly at the lower end.

The likes of Freienbach and Zug make much more sense for higher earners, as the tax differential is much more, due to both the Gemeinde rates coming into play as you have to do a tax return and the differential against Zurich gets bigger the more you earn. Furthermore (at least in Schwyz) CHF for CHF you get more for your money when renting more expensive property - say 4k upwards.
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Old 29.05.2016, 11:08
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Re: Understanding CH Taxes - Gemeinde, Kanton, etc

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Oops, you are right - I keep forgetting that Wollerau is not part of Freienbach...
Yet Wilen be Wollerau is. I'm sure there's historical reasons for it.

Bezirk Höfe should just become one super Gemeinde - I'm sure there's economies of scale that could make our taxes even lower
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Old 01.06.2016, 13:02
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Re: Understanding CH Taxes - Gemeinde, Kanton, etc

Well, just got the 2016 estimated tax bill and... ouch. Quite a jump.

Just another reminder that if considering SZ, make sure you have 2016 rates plugged into your calculation.


ETA, the cantonal calculator:

http://www.sz.ch/xml_1/internet/de/a...4055/p2436.cfm
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Old 03.06.2016, 20:23
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Re: Understanding CH Taxes - Gemeinde, Kanton, etc

HI everyone,

I just moved to Freienbach. Can you please help me to understand the taxes? I received 2 bills:

1) Total einfache Steuer 100%

2) Kantonssteuer
Bezirkssteurer
Gemeindesteuer
feuerwehrersatzabgabe

What is the 1st one?

Thanks alot

Uliana
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Old 03.06.2016, 20:27
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Re: Understanding CH Taxes - Gemeinde, Kanton, etc

The first is the base for the later.
Is it really a propper bill which you have to pay or just the calculation? Or are you missing a Bundessteuer? Which would be the federal tax.
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Old 03.06.2016, 20:31
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Re: Understanding CH Taxes - Gemeinde, Kanton, etc

Hi, thanks for the quick reply. No federal tax..... So I am guessing that is it.... Its an actual bill to pay
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