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  #181  
Old 13.10.2016, 17:24
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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i did rather like pick your own strawberries as a kid
Me 2, I did once visit a pick your own corn on the cob place. Quite frightening!

That stuff grows quite high and after hunting around for the best cobs you don't know the way out anymore
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  #182  
Old 13.10.2016, 18:56
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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The low GBP will give a boost to domestic farmers and producers perhaps creating a shift from import to domestically produced/sourced.
Yup, in no time British shoppers will be snapping up domestically-grown bananas, cantaloupes, strawberries in March, wine... not to mention all the non-FMCG items that are not produced in the UK.

Time to face facts: Brexit would be a disaster for the UK. How would another referendum hurt the democratic process? As I pointed don't earlier in the Brexit thread, it would be undemocratic not to have another vote.

And before the investors chime in again, the prospect of greater financial gain resulting from the sinking pound is not a reasonable basis for proceeding with Brexit.
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  #183  
Old 13.10.2016, 19:05
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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Time to face facts: Brexit would be a disaster for the UK. How would another referendum hurt the democratic process? As I pointed don't earlier in the Brexit thread, it would be undemocratic not to have another vote.
you cannot organise referendums until you have one with an outcome in your favour. that is not very democratic.
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  #184  
Old 13.10.2016, 19:19
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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The low GBP will give a boost to domestic farmers and producers perhaps creating a shift from import to domestically produced/sourced.
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Yup, in no time British shoppers will be snapping up domestically-grown bananas, cantaloupes, strawberries in March, wine... not to mention all the non-FMCG items that are not produced in the UK.
A mind-blowing concept, but you don't only eat strawberries in March. And you don't have to eat bananas. If food from outside the UK is more expensive, then it would support cheaper UK produced substitutes. Substitutes don't have to be the exact same thing.

So maybe more British apples will get eaten instead of bananas - which will then overall improve the UK's balance of trade.

That said, if the UK leaves the customs union, the UK government will be able to decide whether bananas represent a serious threat to British farmers and agriculture and can change the import tariffs on them. If they decide not, they could eliminate the tariffs and bananas would be cheaper than in the EU even with the GBP devaluation.

Amazing what control over your own trade policy can do, huh?
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  #185  
Old 13.10.2016, 19:49
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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A mind-blowing concept, but you don't only eat strawberries in March. And you don't have to eat bananas. If food from outside the UK is more expensive, then it would support cheaper UK produced substitutes. Substitutes don't have to be the exact same thing.

So maybe more British apples will get eaten instead of bananas - which will then overall improve the UK's balance of trade.

That said, if the UK leaves the customs union, the UK government will be able to decide whether bananas represent a serious threat to British farmers and agriculture and can change the import tariffs on them. If they decide not, they could eliminate the tariffs and bananas would be cheaper than in the EU even with the GBP devaluation.

Amazing what control over your own trade policy can do, huh?
There is no surcharge (tariff) on banana shipments from former European colonies in Africa and the Caribbean.

I don't know why people who support Leave must continually twist the facts?

Sad business; thank God for the Internet where we can search for facts
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  #186  
Old 13.10.2016, 20:04
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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There is no surcharge (tariff) on banana shipments from former European colonies in Africa and the Caribbean.

I don't know why people who support Leave must continually twist the facts?

Sad business; thank God for the Internet where we can search for facts
The mfn rate is about €0.12 per kg. You refer to tariff free countries but only applies if they signed a further agreement.

None of this changes the fact that the UK could lower the mfn rate for other countries which would lower prices further through competition or indeed increase the rate.

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  #187  
Old 13.10.2016, 20:10
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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There is no surcharge (tariff) on banana shipments from former European colonies in Africa and the Caribbean.
Geek alert.

OH always searched for S.A. bananas when in the UK, but they were usually from Honduras or Costa Rica, and just checking out Tesco's website, their current stock are...
Produce of:

Cameroon, Colombia, Costa Rica, the Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Ghana, Guatemala, Ivory Coast (Côte d'Ivoire)
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  #188  
Old 13.10.2016, 20:27
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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The mfn rate is about €12 per kg. You refer to tariff free countries but only applies if they signed a further agreement.

None of this changes the fact that the UK could lower the mfn rate for other countries which would lower prices further through competition or indeed increase the rate.
No, there is no surcharge (tariff) on banana shipments from former European colonies in Africa and the Caribbean (ACP countries) into the EU.

Nothing to do with mfn rate or signing further agreements.

Look up EU banana import regime and inform yourself
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  #189  
Old 13.10.2016, 20:46
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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you cannot organise referendums until you have one with an outcome in your favour. that is not very democratic.
Agreed. I'm not advocating a succession of referenda until the "right" decision is made. Apparently both sides claim that they weren't fully informed about the facts before voting in the referendum. More facts are now out there and the potential consequences of Brexit —which is still not a done deal — are clearer. Why not have another referendum which will either confirm the result of the previous referendum, or allow voters to interpret the additional information they have received, and may result in the original decision being reversed?

Brexit is a huge, important decision. It's irreversible. I'd have thought the people of the UK would want to make such a decision armed with as much information as possible. In general elections, voters choose a government — an important decision, but one that's reversible a few years later if they don't like the consequences of that decision. With Brexit, they don't have the luxury of changing their minds after the decision to break from the EU is made.

If you decided to be tied onto what you thought were disused train tracks for a laugh, then discovered that a train was due to come through in ten minutes, wouldn't you like an opportunity to process that new information and potentially revise your earlier decision?

I'm just saying: be sure.

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A mind-blowing concept, but you don't only eat strawberries in March. And you don't have to eat bananas. If food from outside the UK is more expensive, then it would support cheaper UK produced substitutes. Substitutes don't have to be the exact same thing.
I don't think you get my point, Phil. But if you want Tesco and Sainsbury's to turn into Migros and Coop, with limited range and choice and little or no out-of-season offerings, then carry on.
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  #190  
Old 13.10.2016, 21:00
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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Agreed. I'm not advocating a succession of referenda until the "right" decision is made. Apparently both sides claim that they weren't fully informed about the facts before voting in the referendum. More facts are now out there and the potential consequences of Brexit —which is still not a done deal — are clearer. Why not have another referendum which will either confirm the result of the previous referendum, or allow voters to interpret the additional information they have received, and may result in the original decision being reversed?.........
There are precedents around

Treaty of Lisbon
Only one member state, Ireland, obliged by their constitution, decided on ratification of the Treaty of Lisbon through a referendum, and rejected the treaty a first time.

Ireland – 53.2% against (12 June 2008)
The Irish voted again on the unchanged Lisbon Treaty on 2 October 2009. The vote was then 67.1% in favour of the treaty.

Ireland – 67.1% in favour (2 October 2009)

Greek bailout referendum, 2015
Greece Referendum (5 July 2015) on the bailout conditions in the Greek government-debt crisis.
A majority of 61% rejected the bailout conditions. However, shortly afterwards the government accepted a bailout with even harsher conditions than the one rejected.

Enlargement of EU 1973

Norway – 53.5% against (25 September 1972)

Enlargement of EU 1995
Norway – 52.2% against (28 November 1994)

I do not know why the "supporters" of democracy are so frightened by the prospect of a second referendum
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  #191  
Old 13.10.2016, 21:03
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

Anyone seen any grab bags on offer?
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  #192  
Old 13.10.2016, 21:14
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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There are precedents around

Treaty of Lisbon
Only one member state, Ireland, obliged by their constitution, decided on ratification of the Treaty of Lisbon through a referendum, and rejected the treaty a first time.

Ireland – 53.2% against (12 June 2008)
The Irish voted again on the unchanged Lisbon Treaty on 2 October 2009. The vote was then 67.1% in favour of the treaty.

Ireland – 67.1% in favour (2 October 2009)

Greek bailout referendum, 2015
Greece Referendum (5 July 2015) on the bailout conditions in the Greek government-debt crisis.
A majority of 61% rejected the bailout conditions. However, shortly afterwards the government accepted a bailout with even harsher conditions than the one rejected.

Enlargement of EU 1973

Norway – 53.5% against (25 September 1972)

Enlargement of EU 1995
Norway – 52.2% against (28 November 1994)

I do not know why the "supporters" of democracy are so frightened by the prospect of a second referendum
Same with Switzerland, a referendum resulted in a refusal to join the EU in 1992 which was confirmed by a second referendum in 2001.

It seems bloody-minded to refuse a second referendum on Brexit. As you say, what are the Leavers frightened of?
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  #193  
Old 13.10.2016, 21:19
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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Anyone seen any grab bags on offer?
Take a look here. I am sure you will find something to suit your taste
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  #194  
Old 13.10.2016, 21:46
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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Take a look here. I am sure you will find something to suit your taste
Better not look, it's a jungle out there.
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Old 13.10.2016, 22:01
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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Same with Switzerland, a referendum resulted in a refusal to join the EU in 1992 which was confirmed by a second referendum in 2001.

It seems bloody-minded to refuse a second referendum on Brexit. As you say, what are the Leavers frightened of?
Switzerland was a different case as there were 9 years between the two referenda.

I don't think it is about being frightened but more about the practical consequences: there may very well be a third referendum. dependent on the outcome, there could be a fourth too...
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  #196  
Old 13.10.2016, 22:02
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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Same with Switzerland, a referendum resulted in a refusal to join the EU in 1992 which was confirmed by a second referendum in 2001.

It seems bloody-minded to refuse a second referendum on Brexit. As you say, what are the Leavers frightened of?
So if the second one votes to stay, which one takes precedence, or do we have a third to determine a "final" outcome ?
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Old 13.10.2016, 22:14
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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So maybe more British apples will get eaten instead of bananas - which will then overall improve the UK's balance of trade.
Except the UK can only produce a little more than half its own food in total. Where are you going to magic the other half from?
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Old 13.10.2016, 22:33
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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Except the UK can only produce a little more than half its own food in total. Where are you going to magic the other half from?
Obesity is pretty high, probably better to do absolutely nothing a fitter leaner population will also save the NHS a fortune. Win win I would say.
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Old 13.10.2016, 22:41
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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Switzerland was a different case as there were 9 years between the two referenda.

I don't think it is about being frightened but more about the practical consequences: there may very well be a third referendum. dependent on the outcome, there could be a fourth too...
The best idea would be to adopt Australian-style compulsory voting and get everybody's voice heard in one final referendum. Failing that, perhaps require a certain majority (60% or whatever is the norm) to give a measure of comfort that the decision reflects a clear majority of voters. Whichever way the decision goes — and it largely has no effect on me personally — it would be good to know that most eligible voters want it. I don't think that anybody would claim that the Brexit vote, with its low turnout and close margin, represents an overwhelming majority decision.

There are plenty of examples of referenda closer together than Switzerland's. See marton's post.
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Old 13.10.2016, 22:47
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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The best idea would be to adopt Australian-style compulsory voting and get everybody's voice heard in one final referendum. Failing that, perhaps require a certain majority (60% or whatever is the norm) to give a measure of comfort that the decision reflects a clear majority of voters. Whichever way the decision goes — and it largely has no effect on me personally — it would be good to know that most eligible voters want it. I don't think that anybody would claim that the Brexit vote, with its low turnout and close margin, represents an overwhelming majority decision.

There are plenty of examples of referenda closer together than Switzerland's. See marton's post.
Hardly a low turn out, more people voted for BREXIT, than ever voted for anything else ever in the history of Britain. Roughly a 1 million majority or 8% more people voted to leave than stay.
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