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-   -   Massive tax bill after permit c upgrade (https://www.englishforum.ch/finance-banking-taxation/263467-massive-tax-bill-after-permit-c-upgrade.html)

ZurichLuck 05.12.2016 18:05

Massive tax bill after permit c upgrade
 
Thanks for any help you can give me, I appreciate it.

My friend (true lol!) became a permit c holder in November 2016. Her tax situation changed therefore. Prior to becoming a permit c holder, she paid permit B style tax from January to October 2016. It went out with her wages.

She then received a massive tax bill for 2016. It is about 12 000 chf, which is more or less the amount she pays per year. She has though as mentioned already, paid tax for Jan-Oct.

Is this usual tax authority behaviour? Has it happened to anyone before?

What happens next please? Does she pay the bill and then expect a rebate? How long might that take?

Thanks again.

st2lemans 05.12.2016 18:12

Re: Massive tax bill after permit c upgrade
 
They should refund all the tax at source first.

Tom

ivank 05.12.2016 18:13

Re: Massive tax bill after permit c upgrade
 
They likely just miscalculated the bill, probably calculated it for whole year instead of 2 months. Have you simply tried calling tax office?

When I have received my C in the middle of the year, they calculated the amount owed pro-rated based on number of months left in the year.

st2lemans 05.12.2016 18:16

Re: Massive tax bill after permit c upgrade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ivank (Post 2702803)
They likely just miscalculated the bill, probably calculated it for whole year instead of 2 months.

That's not how it works, it's always for the full year in such cases, but they first should refund the tax at source.

Worked that way for me both times that I went from tax at source to normal tax.

Tom

CorsebouTheReturn 05.12.2016 18:18

Re: Massive tax bill after permit c upgrade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ivank (Post 2702803)
They likely just miscalculated the bill, probably calculated it for whole year instead of 2 months. Have you simply tried calling tax office?

From experience (which depends on canton), it seems normal.
It's different services on the "a la source" vs the "normal tax".
The "normal tax" of the canton should have checked the sum present (or not) in the a la source "fund" and then correct both canton and commune bills.

It's easily fixed by calling for hours, writing several letters, waiting months, calling again, seeing the fixes and the new mistakes (like "forgetting to calculate interests", "trying to charge penalty for alleged late payment"...).

In the end it worked, which almost sounded like a miracle.
I heard everything was smooth in Switzerland, I find it quite "hilly".

CorsebouTheReturn 05.12.2016 18:19

Re: Massive tax bill after permit c upgrade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by st2lemans (Post 2702805)
That's not how it works, it's always for the full year in such cases, but they first should refund the tax at source.

Worked that way for me both times that I went from tax at source to normal tax.

Tom

In some cases they don't refund the " a la source" they add it as "credit", and the normal tax officer is supposed to check:
1) any pre payment made during the year
2) The "a la source" pot.

Seems they have issue with 2), at least in my case.

Again it depends on cantons.

ivank 05.12.2016 18:20

Re: Massive tax bill after permit c upgrade
 
In my experience, I've got a bill for just a fraction of the year, <remaining months>/12 of whole year's taxes (calculated using income/wealth figures from last tax declaration), and no refund of tax at source.

In any case, the correct and obvious thing to do is to call the tax office. Why do you even have to ask on englishforum before calling? With a shiny new C permit, language shouldn't be an issue.

aSwissInTheUS 05.12.2016 18:22

Re: Massive tax bill after permit c upgrade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ZurichLuck (Post 2702795)
She then received a massive tax bill for 2016. It is about 12 000 chf, which is more or less the amount she pays per year. She has though as mentioned already, paid tax for Jan-Oct.

Look a the bill closely. If it is actually for 2016 than it is most likely a suggestion and pre-payment only and not an actual tax bill. In canton Zurich the 2016 tax is due September 30th. Anything due paid before is awarded with 0.5% interest. Anything paid late is punished with 0.5% interest. Anything paid too much since Spetember 30 is awarded 0.5%.

How to you know how much tax you owe in 2016? You guesstimate based on your income and situation or just pay previous years ammount if not much changed. If you never did a tax return download last years private tax and fill in your numbers. Then hit calculate to get an estimate what is due. Subtract from that tax at source allready paid the pay the reminder as a pre payment. Once time comes (somwehne January/February) use Private Tax 2016 to do the actual return.

ivank 05.12.2016 18:36

Re: Massive tax bill after permit c upgrade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aSwissInTheUS (Post 2702811)
Look a the bill closely. If it is actually for 2016 than it is most likely a suggestion and pre-payment only and not an actual tax bill.

You're still expected to pay and can't just ignore it.

Guest 05.12.2016 18:42

Re: Massive tax bill after permit c upgrade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ivank (Post 2702815)
You're still expected to pay and can't just ignore it.

Can't see where aSwiss in the US said to ignore it. His advice was pretty sound LOOK AT BILL CLOSELY.....and then giving options and consequences for paying early/late

ivank 05.12.2016 18:50

Re: Massive tax bill after permit c upgrade
 
Quote:

Can't see where aSwiss in the US said to ignore it
That's what I take "it is a ... suggestion" means. Provisional bill is not merely a suggestion. You can pay more, but they expect you to pay at least what they quoted, or talk to them.

st2lemans 05.12.2016 18:52

Re: Massive tax bill after permit c upgrade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ivank (Post 2702815)
You're still expected to pay and can't just ignore it.

Yes, you can. ;)

I do it all the time. :eek:

Tom

ivank 05.12.2016 18:53

Re: Massive tax bill after permit c upgrade
 
So how many betreibungen do you have on your record already then if i may ask?

st2lemans 05.12.2016 18:57

Re: Massive tax bill after permit c upgrade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ivank (Post 2702823)
So how many betreibungen do you have on your record already then if i may ask?

None. ;)

It only matters that you pay the final bill, and any interest.

Estimates don't have to be paid when received.

Meanwhile, the last final bil I've received was for 2013. Since then they haven't bothered to send me one, or even do the calculation. :eek:

Tom

ivank 05.12.2016 18:59

Re: Massive tax bill after permit c upgrade
 
They have a right to make you pay the provisional bill with a Betreibung. Whether they make use of it or not I guess depends on amount.

aSwissInTheUS 05.12.2016 19:00

Re: Massive tax bill after permit c upgrade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ivank (Post 2702823)
So how many betreibungen do you have on your record already then if i may ask?

None. :msntongue:

Paid once tripple, then many years none, and finally most of the times slightly more and earlier. The Zahlungsempfehlung are optional.

But you should really pay the once labeled with "Definitive Steuerrechnung". Paying such a bill late means a penalty of 4.5% (per year, so still pretty low) interest.

st2lemans 05.12.2016 19:01

Re: Massive tax bill after permit c upgrade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ivank (Post 2702829)
They have a right to make you pay the provisional bill with a Betreibung. Whether they make use of it or not I guess depends on amount.

They never have for me, and I normally pay my taxes in December and no earlier.

Tom

st2lemans 05.12.2016 19:02

Re: Massive tax bill after permit c upgrade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aSwissInTheUS (Post 2702830)
But you should really pay the once labeled with "Definitive Steuerrechnung".

Yes, those are the ones I pay. ;)

Tom

ivank 05.12.2016 19:05

Re: Massive tax bill after permit c upgrade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aSwissInTheUS (Post 2702830)
Paying such a bill late means a penalty of 4.5% (per year, so still pretty low) interest.

Probably that's the real reason they don't aggressively go after non-prepayers. Where else can you so easily earn 4.5% interest at no (additional) risk?

aSwissInTheUS 05.12.2016 19:09

Re: Massive tax bill after permit c upgrade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ivank (Post 2702820)
That's what I take "it is a ... suggestion" means. Provisional bill is not merely a suggestion. You can pay more, but they expect you to pay at least what they quoted, or talk to them.

It is a suggestion. The city of Zurich sends you normally 5 slips. One blank, one over the full suggested ammount, and three with three equal payments spread out over the year such that interest for early and late payment evens out.

You can even make a standing order with the blank one such that you pay every month a little bit. It is your own rsponsibility to calculate, budget and pay accrodingly.

No need to contact the tax office. Here directly from the source:
https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/fd/de/i...srechnung.html


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