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Old 06.12.2016, 18:44
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Cashing in Uk pension - claiming back emergency tax

Today I had a 20 minute call with Abbey Life in England about cashing in my UK pension.

It is not a lot, probably about 20K CHF - something I set up in 1984 and stopped paying in 1988 when I had a limited company and was trying to avoid paying too much tax.

Last week they sent me a 30 page document explaining all the various options involving Pension Wise and investing in annuities, but as the sum is relatively small, I decided that it is better just to cash it in.

The nice lady explained that she had to give me a warning which would take about 12 minutes, which would explain all the impacts and pitfalls involved in me opting for an "Uncrystallised Funds Pension Lump Sum" withdrawal, which was all very sensible and as a result of previous legal issues regarding the company. (this would be recorded)

At the end I had to orally agree that I understood and then she told me that she could then now send me the relevant documents to enable me to kick off the process. (I should receive these in 10 working days and they can pay the money within another 10 working days upon receipt (if there are no errors)

My last question to her ( the purpose of the thread) was about the emergency tax which they will apply to the money.

The first 25 percent is tax free (I am 56 years old) and the last 75 percent is taxed on emergency tax rates.

I have not worked in the UK since 2000, so how would I go about claiming back some of the emergency tax? Would you think that this withdrawal will kick off a re-registration process with HMRC? I read that you are allowed to earn 10,000 pounds before tax is applied nowadays.

Also, if anyone else has done this - will companies like Abbey Life pay money into a Swiss Bank Account? I have no accounts left in the UK except a Bank of Scotland credit card.

I will update this thread over the next few weeks, but I will be happy to hear from anyone else who has been down this road before.

Last edited by jbrady; 06.12.2016 at 18:58. Reason: spelling
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Old 06.12.2016, 22:17
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Re: Cashing in Uk pension - claiming back emergency tax

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Today I had a 20 minute call with Abbey Life in England about cashing in my UK pension.

It is not a lot, probably about 20K CHF - something I set up in 1984 and stopped paying in 1988 when I had a limited company and was trying to avoid paying too much tax.

Last week they sent me a 30 page document explaining all the various options involving Pension Wise and investing in annuities, but as the sum is relatively small, I decided that it is better just to cash it in.

The nice lady explained that she had to give me a warning which would take about 12 minutes, which would explain all the impacts and pitfalls involved in me opting for an "Uncrystallised Funds Pension Lump Sum" withdrawal, which was all very sensible and as a result of previous legal issues regarding the company. (this would be recorded)

At the end I had to orally agree that I understood and then she told me that she could then now send me the relevant documents to enable me to kick off the process. (I should receive these in 10 working days and they can pay the money within another 10 working days upon receipt (if there are no errors)

My last question to her ( the purpose of the thread) was about the emergency tax which they will apply to the money.


The first 25 percent is tax free (I am 56 years old) and the last 75 percent is taxed on emergency tax rates.

I have not worked in the UK since 2000, so how would I go about claiming back some of the emergency tax? Would you think that this withdrawal will kick off a re-registration process with HMRC? I read that you are allowed to earn 10,000 pounds before tax is applied nowadays.

Also, if anyone else has done this - will companies like Abbey Life pay money into a Swiss Bank Account? I have no accounts left in the UK except a Bank of Scotland credit card.

I will update this thread over the next few weeks, but I will be happy to hear from anyone else who has been down this road before.
Emergency tax assumes an 11k personal allowance so nothing wrong with that. Take £916 a month & no UK tax will be payable. Of course being a Swiss resident the Swiss may want you to pay some tax. Spread over a few years you need never pay more than 20% tax.

Ask them if they will pay into a Swiss AC. Not sure I would want the bank to do the FX transaction.
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Old 08.12.2016, 09:09
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Re: Cashing in Uk pension - claiming back emergency tax

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Emergency tax assumes an 11k personal allowance so nothing wrong with that. Take £916 a month & no UK tax will be payable. Of course being a Swiss resident the Swiss may want you to pay some tax. Spread over a few years you need never pay more than 20% tax.

Ask them if they will pay into a Swiss AC. Not sure I would want the bank to do the FX transaction.
I was told that they will only pay out in one transfer - so I presume that they will apply the emergency tax as if it was one month's salary. I guess that I will then have to claim back the tax from HMRC.

The FX transaction is definitely going to be tricky without a UK bank account. I don't believe that I can open one unless I am registered in the UK, which would mean renting a room and then paying council tax (I tried to open one with Barclays in July and they told me it was not possible as I have been away from the UK too long)
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Old 08.12.2016, 09:14
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Re: Cashing in Uk pension - claiming back emergency tax

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I was told that they will only pay out in one transfer - so I presume that they will apply the emergency tax as if it was one month's salary. I guess that I will then have to claim back the tax from HMRC.

The FX transaction is definitely going to be tricky without a UK bank account
. I don't believe that I can open one unless I am registered in the UK, which would mean renting a room and then paying council tax (I tried to open one with Barclays in July and they told me it was not possible as I have been away from the UK too long)
I'll be looking at doing almost the same as you in the new year. Surely they can do an international transfer to a Swiss bank?

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Emergency tax assumes an 11k personal allowance so nothing wrong with that. Take £916 a month & no UK tax will be payable. Of course being a Swiss resident the Swiss may want you to pay some tax. Spread over a few years you need never pay more than 20% tax.

Ask them if they will pay into a Swiss AC. Not sure I would want the bank to do the FX transaction.
I will be opening a Sterling account over here anyway so that won't be a problem
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Old 08.12.2016, 09:34
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Re: Cashing in Uk pension - claiming back emergency tax

I think the issue with the FX transfer is just on the exchange rate and commission when the money goes from Abbey Life directly to my CHF account. Probably will get ripped off both sides.

I don't think that a Sterling account is a good solution for me, just for a one off transaction. However I will check up with my bank later.
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Old 08.12.2016, 09:49
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Re: Cashing in Uk pension - claiming back emergency tax

I use a forex company to receive some payments from the UK. I give the payer the company's sort code and account number, and my reference number to quote. Then the forex company converts and transfers the money on receipt into my Swiss account.

One time the payer put "payer ltd" on the reference - one phone call to the forex company and all was resolved.

It can take some time to set up an account though.
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Old 08.12.2016, 10:01
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Re: Cashing in Uk pension - claiming back emergency tax

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I think the issue with the FX transfer is just on the exchange rate and commission when the money goes from Abbey Life directly to my CHF account. Probably will get ripped off both sides.

I don't think that a Sterling account is a good solution for me, just for a one off transaction. However I will check up with my bank later.
Well I wouldn't be converting to CHF at the moment anyway because of the low pound so you might want to see what the costs are for keeping a sterling a/c here until the pound recovers (sorry, IF) and anyway, I import a lot from the UK so it makes sense for me to keep it in £'s.
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Old 08.12.2016, 10:12
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Re: Cashing in Uk pension - claiming back emergency tax

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I was told that they will only pay out in one transfer - so I presume that they will apply the emergency tax as if it was one month's salary. I guess that I will then have to claim back the tax from HMRC.

The FX transaction is definitely going to be tricky without a UK bank account. I don't believe that I can open one unless I am registered in the UK, which would mean renting a room and then paying council tax (I tried to open one with Barclays in July and they told me it was not possible as I have been away from the UK too long)
Then pay it out in March. I will use drawdown taking about 20k a year for 4 years. It can easily be paid monthly.
With drawdown your options
a1) are take 25% tax free
a2) then pay tax on remaining balance as & when it's drawn out.
b1) take an amount & only pay tax on 75%.

Depending on the country of residence & taxation law it's also possible to elect some or ALL of the pension to be taxed in your country of residence.
I will elect 11k taxable in the UK & 9 k taxable in my country of residence. I am only taxed on income remitted so in effect I get 2 countries tax allowances.
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Old 08.12.2016, 10:46
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Re: Cashing in Uk pension - claiming back emergency tax

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The first 25 percent is tax free (I am 56 years old) and the last 75 percent is taxed on emergency tax rates.
Is there a minimum age for cashing in a UK pension?
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Old 08.12.2016, 10:48
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Re: Cashing in Uk pension - claiming back emergency tax

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Is there a minimum age for cashing in a UK pension?
It's 55
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Old 11.12.2016, 10:05
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Re: Cashing in Uk pension - claiming back emergency tax

Update from the Abbey Life pension termination process.
Yesterday, I received 2 letters from Abbey Life.

The first was a transcript of the phone call I made, with all the questions and my answers (plus extra warnings about the effects on HMRC reduction of the Annual Allowance being reduced from 40K to 10K once I take out any money from my pension)

The second letter was the actual withdrawal form where I must provide details of my bank and P45 and National Insurance Number. Without an original current P45, Abbey Life will automatically apply emergency tax of over 3,700 pounds.

If myself and my bank is overseas, they can only provide a Sterling Cheque, which can either be sent to the bank or my home address.

Looks like I am a little stuffed. The cheque must also be in my name - it cannot be paid to a third party account.

Seems like I will not be able to use the forex options and I will have to talk with HMRC about claiming back emergency tax.
Will Swiss banks accepts Stirling cheques? I have never seen a chequebook since being in Switzerland

Tomorrow could be interesting - I will have to dig out my NI number from the archives.
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Old 11.12.2016, 10:08
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Re: Cashing in Uk pension - claiming back emergency tax

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Update from the Abbey Life pension termination process.
Yesterday, I received 2 letters from Abbey Life.

The first was a transcript of the phone call I made, with all the questions and my answers (plus extra warnings about the effects on HMRC reduction of the Annual Allowance being reduced from 40K to 10K once I take out any money from my pension)

The second letter was the actual withdrawal form where I must provide details of my bank and P45 and National Insurance Number. Without an original current P45, Abbey Life will automatically apply emergency tax of over 3,700 pounds.

If myself and my bank is overseas, they can only provide a Sterling Cheque, which can either be sent to the bank or my home address.

Looks like I am a little stuffed. The cheque must also be in my name - it cannot be paid to a third party account.

Seems like I will not be able to use the forex options and I will have to talk with HMRC about claiming back emergency tax.
Will Swiss banks accepts Stirling cheques? I have never seen a chequebook since being in Switzerland

Tomorrow could be interesting - I will have to dig out my NI number from the archives.
That's been asked a few times on EF and most answers were yes, but it takes a little time and there's a small charge, of course.

EDIT. what is the rate of the emergency tax they deduct?
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Old 11.12.2016, 10:30
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Re: Cashing in Uk pension - claiming back emergency tax

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That's been asked a few times on EF and most answers were yes, but it takes a little time and there's a small charge, of course.

EDIT. what is the rate of the emergency tax they deduct?
Thanks, hope the Aarauische Kantonal Bank is is one of the "yes" banks.

Just did a rough calculation on the emergency tax - it looks like about 33 percent of the 75 percent taxable element of the pension.

They took off 800 pounds for early withdrawal and other fees - which was explained before. Apparently, if you wait until April 2017, the fee MAY be lower, but the rules may also change. (this was also mentioned in this new letter)

I believe the fee is currently based on a sliding scale - the proposal is to place a cap on early exit charges.
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Old 11.12.2016, 11:00
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Re: Cashing in Uk pension - claiming back emergency tax

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That's been asked a few times on EF and most answers were yes, but it takes a little time and there's a small charge, of course.

EDIT. what is the rate of the emergency tax they deduct?
Emergency tax assumes 11k allowance then tax at normal PAYE rate. If you take everything at the end of the tax year then the tax deducted will be spot on, take a lump sum early & too much tax will be paid. Refund of overpayment by way of a UK tax return.

By transferring a UK pension to Hargreaves Lansdown, they have a flexible drawdown option, so you can tale a lump sum over several years to minimise tax rate or even pay zero UK tax.
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Old 15.12.2016, 14:28
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Re: Cashing in Uk pension - claiming back emergency tax

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Depending on the country of residence & taxation law it's also possible to elect some or ALL of the pension to be taxed in your country of residence.
I will elect 11k taxable in the UK & 9 k taxable in my country of residence. I am only taxed on income remitted so in effect I get 2 countries tax allowances.


That is interesting - I assume you have British nationality. We spoke to HMRC regarding a couple of pension funds my Swiss husband paid into in the '80s. We were told that if he took a one-off amount under the annual drawdown terms and not under flexibility rules then he would not be taxed in the UK, but in Switzerland under the Double Taxation agreement. If he takes any money out under the flexibility rules then he would be subject to emergency tax in the UK reclaimable with Form R43.
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Old 15.12.2016, 14:52
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Re: Cashing in Uk pension - claiming back emergency tax

I came across this form this week after spending a lot of time on the HMRC site and it seems to be the best option. (For my circumstance)
I sent all my forms off to Abbey Life on Tuesday registered post.
I will wait first for the Sterling cheque and see what other paperwork comes with it. I am just not sure how long it will take for Abbey Life to pay/register the tax they have deducted from me to HMRC and for it to appear in their records. At the moment I am probably not registered with them - my last uk job was in 2000.
I guess wait until the end of the uk tax year before submiting the R 43 form
I have british and swiss nationality

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Old 15.12.2016, 15:47
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Re: Cashing in Uk pension - claiming back emergency tax

I'm in exactly the same boat John, so thanks for this thread.

I contacted the company FMF suggested, and they came back with they "couldn't help as I'm not UK resident, If I was with them before I moved, then they could"

Please keep us updated.
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Old 15.12.2016, 16:06
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Re: Cashing in Uk pension - claiming back emergency tax

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That is interesting - I assume you have British nationality. We spoke to HMRC regarding a couple of pension funds my Swiss husband paid into in the '80s. We were told that if he took a one-off amount under the annual drawdown terms and not under flexibility rules then he would not be taxed in the UK, but in Switzerland under the Double Taxation agreement. If he takes any money out under the flexibility rules then he would be subject to emergency tax in the UK reclaimable with Form R43.
Nationality is irrelevant.

You can ELECT not to have any of the pension taxable in the UK. The revenue will usually allow that if it's taxable in your place of residence.
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Old 15.12.2016, 16:06
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Re: Cashing in Uk pension - claiming back emergency tax

Luckily my pension is quite small. If it had be more substantial, the best option would to re-register back in the uk to gain the double tax benefits of the gradual withdrawal option. But this probably costs a big chunk of your gains unless you have other reasons to do it.
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Old 15.12.2016, 16:08
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Re: Cashing in Uk pension - claiming back emergency tax

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I'm in exactly the same boat John, so thanks for this thread.

I contacted the company FMF suggested, and they came back with they "couldn't help as I'm not UK resident, If I was with them before I moved, then they could"

Please keep us updated.
Ask if you can transfer your pension into a SIPP, then you have their drawdown arrangements.
I transferred mine within the last 3 years whilst resident in CH.

I will start a drawdown in May next year so will be able to update this thread.
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