Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 27.01.2017, 16:58
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery, but not the SoT one
Posts: 20,345
Groaned at 352 Times in 267 Posts
Thanked 14,796 Times in 8,507 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
UK Pensions in UK Bank - how to show on Swiss tax return?

Title pretty much says it. I have both a small UK private pension and UK State pension going into my UK bank account. How do I put this down on the Swiss return and what do I use for supporting documentation? It'll go under the Pension section, but what do I use to do the UK/Franc exchange (any official site like the IRS one) and would a UK bank statement be enough?

I currently don't need to fill in a UK tax return and what I get pension-wise doesn't exceed my personal allowance.

Also will start getting a small Swiss pension from this month so would that mean I need to contact HMRC and find out if I need to start doing UK returns again?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 27.01.2017, 17:58
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,356
Groaned at 314 Times in 210 Posts
Thanked 9,773 Times in 3,436 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK Pensions in UK Bank - how to show on Swiss tax return?

You can get your UK pension paid in CHF to your Swiss bank.

If you don't want this, you can either add the year's payments in £ and convert to CHF on December 31 and add to income, but then you will need to add your UK bank account to your Vermögen (wealth).

Or even convert the £ payments for every month, as these will differ...
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 27.01.2017, 19:07
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery, but not the SoT one
Posts: 20,345
Groaned at 352 Times in 267 Posts
Thanked 14,796 Times in 8,507 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK Pensions in UK Bank - how to show on Swiss tax return?

Yeah, I did consider having it sent over here, but I'd prefer to keep it in the UK for the time being, acting as a savings/emergency fund that isn't being spent at the moment.

Yes, will have to add the UK account into the wealth section of the form now, but was probably going to have to do that anyway what with the new bank exchange info thing. Not that I've heard anything from my bank about that, only what I've read here on the forum.

Can't be bothered to do monthly calculations. Is there an official Swiss Federal Bank site where exchange rates for year end are posted? IRS does this, but haven't heard of anything similar elsewhere. Or is it just use OANDA or similar and tell them what the rate the exchange was made at is?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 27.01.2017, 20:01
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,356
Groaned at 314 Times in 210 Posts
Thanked 9,773 Times in 3,436 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK Pensions in UK Bank - how to show on Swiss tax return?

Quote:
View Post
According to the UK Swiss double taxation agreement, pensions are taxed in the country that pays them.

So you pay UK tax on UK pensions and do not declare them on your Swiss Tax document.

Equally Swiss pensions are taxed in Switzerland
This assumes one completes a UK tax declaration, which I haven't done for over 20 years...
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 27.01.2017, 20:13
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,658
Groaned at 351 Times in 302 Posts
Thanked 13,860 Times in 7,625 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK Pensions in UK Bank - how to show on Swiss tax return?

Quote:
View Post
This assumes one completes a UK tax declaration, which I haven't done for over 20 years...
No, it does not!

If you receive a UK pension then you are liable to pay tax on it. Usually they try to find a way to deduct the tax so the pension is paid net of tax; remember PAYE.
If you have not completed a tax return then you may finish up having more deducted than you might wish!

In the case of the OP they deduct any tax from the private pension and pay the State pension gross; in this case it sounds like there will be no tax to deduct.

BTW, UK pensioners who are not in paid employment are no longer required to complete annual tax returns since the increases in pension payments from year to year are standardised..
__________________
It is naive to assume my posts are my own work
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 27.01.2017, 20:15
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery, but not the SoT one
Posts: 20,345
Groaned at 352 Times in 267 Posts
Thanked 14,796 Times in 8,507 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK Pensions in UK Bank - how to show on Swiss tax return?

I haven't had to file since 2014 (last one) and the OH's was in 2015. We both had letters from HMRC to say we didn't need to file anymore, but to contact them if circumstances changed.

Even if I don't have to declare as pension surely it would have to go on the Swiss return as part of my wealth? (I should be so lucky. )
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 27.01.2017, 20:28
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,356
Groaned at 314 Times in 210 Posts
Thanked 9,773 Times in 3,436 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK Pensions in UK Bank - how to show on Swiss tax return?

Quote:
View Post
No, it does not!

If you receive a UK pension then you are liable to pay tax on it. Usually they try to find a way to deduct the tax so the pension is paid net of tax; remember PAYE.
If you have not completed a tax return then you may finish up having more deducted than you might wish!

In the case of the OP they deduct any tax from the private pension and pay the State pension gross; in this case it sounds like there will be no tax to deduct.

BTW, UK pensioners who are not in paid employment are no longer required to complete annual tax returns since the increases in pension payments from year to year are standardised..
I receive my UK pension gross in Switzerland in CHF...
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 27.01.2017, 20:42
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery, but not the SoT one
Posts: 20,345
Groaned at 352 Times in 267 Posts
Thanked 14,796 Times in 8,507 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK Pensions in UK Bank - how to show on Swiss tax return?

Well, if I don't have to include them that's great!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 27.02.2017, 21:11
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery, but not the SoT one
Posts: 20,345
Groaned at 352 Times in 267 Posts
Thanked 14,796 Times in 8,507 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK Pensions in UK Bank - how to show on Swiss tax return?

Another quick question as this one's new on our form. What exactly does this French sentence mean?

Disposez-vous d'un vehicule de fonction

I think it's trying to ask if we have a company car, but neither my translation package or Google translate comes up with a clear suggestion.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 27.02.2017, 21:22
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 3,938
Groaned at 81 Times in 76 Posts
Thanked 7,724 Times in 3,605 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK Pensions in UK Bank - how to show on Swiss tax return?

Can I please ask a further question about the tax form? I don't work in Switzerland and am dependent on my OH. However, I have a house in the UK and a frozen final salary pension pot. I understand that I have to declare the house but at about 50% of it's market value, but do I have to declare a frozen pension?

Also, as I haven't filled in a tax return in 30yrs, is there any offical body I can go to for assistance?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 27.02.2017, 21:32
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery, but not the SoT one
Posts: 20,345
Groaned at 352 Times in 267 Posts
Thanked 14,796 Times in 8,507 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK Pensions in UK Bank - how to show on Swiss tax return?

I wouldn't think so if you're not collecting any pension yet. And under the UK/Swiss tax agreement pensions are taxed in the country that pays them.

Swiss form is pretty easy (hey, I manage it with my very limited French), but why not contact your cantonal tax office and see if someone there can go through the form with you? Once it's done then it's easy to use the previous year as a template for future submissions.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 27.02.2017, 22:14
Belgianmum's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 10,456
Groaned at 123 Times in 112 Posts
Thanked 15,027 Times in 6,593 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK Pensions in UK Bank - how to show on Swiss tax return?

Quote:
View Post
According to the UK Swiss double taxation agreement, pensions are taxed in the country that pays them.

So you pay UK tax on UK pensions and do not declare them on your Swiss Tax document.

Equally Swiss pensions are taxed in Switzerland
That was not what our tax advisor told my husband last week.
He said it had to be declared as income on the Swiss tax return.

Do you have a link to that info?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Belgianmum for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 27.02.2017, 22:18
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 3,938
Groaned at 81 Times in 76 Posts
Thanked 7,724 Times in 3,605 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK Pensions in UK Bank - how to show on Swiss tax return?

Quote:
View Post
Disposez-vous d'un vehicule de fonction

I think it's trying to ask if we have a company car, but neither my translation package or Google translate comes up with a clear suggestion.
Thanks for your answer.
From what I can gather regarding this sentence, you're right, it is asking if you have a company car. I translated it in context from a few different French sites and they all come up with the same answer, 'Do you have a company vehicle at your disposal?'
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 27.02.2017, 22:19
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 17,915
Groaned at 285 Times in 234 Posts
Thanked 15,362 Times in 8,544 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK Pensions in UK Bank - how to show on Swiss tax return?

Quote:
View Post
That was not what our tax advisor told my husband last week.
He said it had to be declared as income on the Swiss tax return.

Do you have a link to that info?
I would agree with your advisor that it should be declared in CH.
It's possible to elect in which country your UK pension is taxable & also how much of it is taxable in the UK. Even if it's only taxable in the UK it needs to be declared in CH.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 27.02.2017, 22:34
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery, but not the SoT one
Posts: 20,345
Groaned at 352 Times in 267 Posts
Thanked 14,796 Times in 8,507 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK Pensions in UK Bank - how to show on Swiss tax return?

Quote:
View Post
Thanks for your answer.
From what I can gather regarding this sentence, you're right, it is asking if you have a company car. I translated it in context from a few different French sites and they all come up with the same answer, 'Do you have a company vehicle at your disposal?'
Thanks Blueangel. That was my thought, but Google Translate came up with do you have a vehicle of function - which wasn't the most accurate description. Funnily enough when I first entered it into Translate I misspelt "fonction" as "foncton" which got me do you have a working vehicle. Still not quite right, but closer to the company car idea than what it came up with with the word spelt correctly.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 28.02.2017, 09:12
Belgianmum's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 10,456
Groaned at 123 Times in 112 Posts
Thanked 15,027 Times in 6,593 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK Pensions in UK Bank - how to show on Swiss tax return?

Quote:
View Post
That was not what our tax advisor told my husband last week.
He said it had to be declared as income on the Swiss tax return.
To add to this as it may be relevant to the OP the letter from the UK pension authorities stating the monthly amount and the bank statement were sufficient for the tax declaration. He said he would calculate the amount based on the exchange rate on December 31st which is quite nice as the rate tumbled after Brexit.
The UK state pension is paid gross into a UK bank account.

Our UK bank (nationwide) sent us a form to fill out regarding sharing if banking detail sometime towards the end of last year and the tax advisor asked for the dates of when the accounts were opened.

After the first year when the OH's company provided a tax consultant I had always done our tax returns myself as they were quire straightforward but the company offers the advisor to do the tax returns for retirees for free so we thought I may as well take them up on it especially as it's more complex now with pensions from 5 different countries.

Last edited by Belgianmum; 28.02.2017 at 09:48.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Belgianmum for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 28.02.2017, 11:18
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,658
Groaned at 351 Times in 302 Posts
Thanked 13,860 Times in 7,625 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK Pensions in UK Bank - how to show on Swiss tax return?

Quote:
View Post
I would agree with your advisor that it should be declared in CH.
It's possible to elect in which country your UK pension is taxable & also how much of it is taxable in the UK. Even if it's only taxable in the UK it needs to be declared in CH.
If you want to have your UK pension taxed in Switzerland

Quote:
Form Switzerland/Individual [FD6]
Form Switzerland/Individual (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/swiss-ind-eng-german.pdf) enables you as a resident of Switzerland to apply under the United Kingdom/Switzerland Double Taxation Convention for relief at source from UK income tax on a UK state retirement pension or incapacity benefit, and UK-source pensions, purchased annuities, royalties and interest. The form also provides for a claim to repayment of UK tax in cases where payments of the income have already been made with UK tax deducted.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 28.02.2017, 11:21
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery, but not the SoT one
Posts: 20,345
Groaned at 352 Times in 267 Posts
Thanked 14,796 Times in 8,507 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK Pensions in UK Bank - how to show on Swiss tax return?

Ah well, tax return is done without the UK stuff on it. That'll have to wait until next year now.

fatmanfilms I would have thought it needed to be declared here too. marton, if you can find a link for that treaty with Article 18 I'd appreciate it. A quick search of the UK government stuff doesn't yield anything about it.

Edit: Ah beat me to it. Given that I'm not over the taxation limit in the UK doesn't seem to be any point in applying for that, especially as the money is held in the UK anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 28.02.2017, 11:53
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,658
Groaned at 351 Times in 302 Posts
Thanked 13,860 Times in 7,625 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK Pensions in UK Bank - how to show on Swiss tax return?

Quote:
View Post
Ah well, tax return is done without the UK stuff on it. That'll have to wait until next year now.

fatmanfilms I would have thought it needed to be declared here too. marton, if you can find a link for that treaty with Article 18 I'd appreciate it. A quick search of the UK government stuff doesn't yield anything about it.

Edit: Ah beat me to it. Given that I'm not over the taxation limit in the UK doesn't seem to be any point in applying for that, especially as the money is held in the UK anyway.
Sure
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...tzerlandUK.pdf
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 28.02.2017, 12:15
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery, but not the SoT one
Posts: 20,345
Groaned at 352 Times in 267 Posts
Thanked 14,796 Times in 8,507 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK Pensions in UK Bank - how to show on Swiss tax return?

Thanks! I looked at that, but the one I found only went up to Article 17.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to declare UK apartments on Swiss tax return Slayer Finance/banking/taxation 2 08.12.2015 17:41
How to declare UK ISAs on Swiss Tax Return Slayer Finance/banking/taxation 14 08.12.2015 16:40
Swiss TAX Return and Property Income from the UK and UK Tax Return edfollett Finance/banking/taxation 19 04.02.2014 17:00
UK tax on Swiss bank account vee Finance/banking/taxation 1 09.10.2013 16:47
UK Tax on Swiss bank account? litt Finance/banking/taxation 38 31.07.2013 20:18


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:44.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0