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-   -   DEGIRO stock broker: any thought? (https://www.englishforum.ch/finance-banking-taxation/266484-degiro-stock-broker-any-thought.html)

Dr Mick 15.02.2017 19:35

DEGIRO stock broker: any thought?
 
Hello,

I have recently came across a Dutch broker called DEGIRO, see https://www.degiro.eu/
According to the website they are available in most EU countries, including Switzerland, and are way cheaper than Swissquote & C..

They also have things such as over 700 ETFs without transaction fee, at least in the German website
https://www.degiro.de/preise/etf-han...nulltarif.html

At the same time I have read some dodgy storied about them, e.g.
http://www.amsterdamtrader.com/2015/...s-clients.html

Does anyone have dealt with them, and if so, what was your experience?

ivank 15.02.2017 23:20

Re: DEGIRO stock broker: any thought?
 
Interactive Brokers is cheaper, but Degiro seems very competitive to me. I haven't actually tried it, but it'd probably be my second broker of choice, if IB would screw up. Both are much cheaper than any swiss broker I know. Swiss brokers charge more in stamp tax duty alone on top of already draconian commissions.

Quote:

They also have things such as over 700 ETFs without transaction fee, at least in the German website

https://www.degiro.de/preise/etf-han...nulltarif.html
Very reasonable list, I see many popular and low cost funds.

Quote:

At the same time I have read some dodgy storied about them, e.g.
http://www.amsterdamtrader.com/2015/...s-clients.html
Hardly relevant for a buy-and-hold investor. And if you're into day trading, you should probably inform yourself of the tax implications of that in Switzerland.

One thing however to keep in mind is that they have two distinct pricing models: normal and custody accounts, the former are a bit more shady. Signing up for a normal account authorizes them to borrow your shares from you (to short stocks). It's a common practice in the market, usually low risk, many funds engage in it. But with other brokers like IB usually it's a free optional choice and they share some profit with you for it. If you don't like the idea of that, you can alternatively sign up for a "custody" account, and in return degiro punishes you by: 1) disallowing margin loans, 2) adding a fee for processing dividend payments. Small, but annoying. Probably there's more, these are just two things that caught my eye when reading their pricelist.

Dr Mick 15.02.2017 23:31

Re: DEGIRO stock broker: any thought?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ivank (Post 2741418)
One thing however to keep in mind is that they have two distinct pricing models: normal and custody accounts, the former are a bit more shady.

Indeed. That is something I had noticed as well.

Burner 17.02.2017 15:56

Re: DEGIRO stock broker: any thought?
 
How much would it cost to get the share certificate?

CorsebouTheReturn 17.02.2017 16:11

Re: DEGIRO stock broker: any thought?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ivank (Post 2741418)
Interactive Brokers is cheaper

What means this in "IB"?:
A processing fee of CHF 15.00 per request is charged for any Tax Voucher request for dividends paid on Swiss stocks.

ivank 17.02.2017 18:12

Re: DEGIRO stock broker: any thought?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Burner (Post 2742329)
How much would it cost to get the share certificate?

With interactive brokers? I'm not sure it's possible. Their business model is discount electronic trading

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorsebouTheReturn (Post 2742343)
What means this in "IB"?:
A processing fee of CHF 15.00 per request is charged for any Tax Voucher request for dividends paid on Swiss stocks.

Never been charged that. It sounds like something non swiss residents need to get the 35% swiss withholding tax back. For swiss residents you accomplish it automatically by filing your tax declaration

HannoA 18.02.2017 14:48

Re: DEGIRO stock broker: any thought?
 
I think I will open a depot with DEGIRO. They are by far cheaper than all the other Brokers in Switzerland. For my style of buy and hold investing in ETFs its for free (as far as I saw on their website), and I feel better having something which is officialy available in Switzerland to brokers like Captraders, Charles Schwab or IB (which is more suited for active investers anyways), which also convert the money to USD first etc. Don`t know if I am right about that though.
The ETF list is great too.
Now I just don`t know if I should get a normal or custody account. How does this dividend fee work when I am invested in ETFs for example? Or is this only about Stocks which get you Dividends directly?

ivank 19.02.2017 04:05

Re: DEGIRO stock broker: any thought?
 
Quote:

How does this dividend fee work when I am invested in ETFs for example?
I'm not sure you can make this any more clear than what the price list already says
"Dividenden-Verarbeitung: € 1,00 + 3 % der Dividende (maximal 10 %)"

So, the more frequently and the less dividends a stock pays, the harder you'll be hit. Assuming typical 2%-ish yearly dividend yield and quaterly payments, the worst case seems holding a position worth less than 2850 EUR - you'll hit the 10% bound and pay them 0.20% p.a. in this dividend processing fee.

It's not really that much a lot compared to taxes. The tax office takes 30-40% cut here, whereas Degiro only 3-10%.

Quote:

Or is this only about Stocks which get you Dividends directly?
Why would you think that? ETFs for most intents and purposes usually are treated like stocks.

You can avoid this dividend fee by buying accumulating ETFs, which reinvest dividends internally instead of paying them out.

hadriana 19.02.2017 10:20

Re: DEGIRO stock broker: any thought?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ivank (Post 2743007)
You can avoid this dividend fee by buying accumulating ETFs, which reinvest dividends internally instead of paying them out.

Accumulating ETFs are still subject to tax, e.g. taxe IWDA (IE00B4L5Y983), according to https://www.ictax.admin.ch/extern/fr...5Y983/20161231 you need to declare a dividend of 0.833 (1.85% of value at end of year)

ivank 19.02.2017 15:37

Re: DEGIRO stock broker: any thought?
 
I didn't say they weren't

hadriana 19.02.2017 18:38

Re: DEGIRO stock broker: any thought?
 
Indeed, I thought you were talking about taxes not fees. Sorry for the misunderstanding

HannoA 19.02.2017 21:28

Re: DEGIRO stock broker: any thought?
 
It is clear for the most part. But you can reinvest the dividend in any stock through your Broker as well, but they will still charge you the dividend Fee. Good thing if they cant do that with accumulating ETFs

kristianej 01.03.2017 19:50

Re: DEGIRO stock broker: any thought?
 
I joined DEGIRO after a lot of research and have been quite satisified, the fees are awesome But it seems i can't buy some basic ETFs, which should be traded on the Swiss Stock Exchange. One example:

UBS ETF (CH) SXI Real Estate Funds (CHF) A-dis
ISIN CH0105994401
Valoren Nr. 10 599 440

Does anyone else have the same experience? Any reason?

Burner 01.03.2017 23:27

Re: DEGIRO stock broker: any thought?
 
Have you confirmed with them, what you suspect?

poot 02.03.2017 10:22

Re: DEGIRO stock broker: any thought?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Burner (Post 2749075)
Have you confirmed with them, what you suspect?

Why would you ask the actual company about their products when you can just ask Englishforum?? ;)

der 05.03.2017 18:20

Re: DEGIRO stock broker: any thought?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kristianej (Post 2748969)
I joined DEGIRO after a lot of research and have been quite satisified, the fees are awesome But it seems i can't buy some basic ETFs, which should be traded on the Swiss Stock Exchange. One example:

UBS ETF (CH) SXI Real Estate Funds (CHF) A-dis
ISIN CH0105994401
Valoren Nr. 10 599 440

Does anyone else have the same experience? Any reason?


What type of account did you open with them?

kristianej 06.03.2017 08:36

Re: DEGIRO stock broker: any thought?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by der (Post 2750734)
What type of account did you open with them?

Thanks for inquiring, that's a good question. I have a Custody (not for loan) account profile, so the not-standard one. Maybe this something to do with it.

kristianej 08.03.2017 19:58

Re: DEGIRO stock broker: any thought?
 
BTW: I asked them about my ETFs, basically they hadn't added them to their tradeable ETFs. Now they have added them and i can trade them.They don't seem to have too many customers in Switzerland, both ETFs are quite popular.

22 yards 08.03.2017 20:38

Re: DEGIRO stock broker: any thought?
 
I have a portfolio of shares that I manage directly. I've been buying (and selling, a little bit) through the very expensive VZ. Does anyone know the procedure to transfer custody to, say, Degiro? Will I have to pay a substantial fee to VZ?

cheshmatt 08.03.2017 20:41

Re: DEGIRO stock broker: any thought?
 
Thanks for the info in this thread, I have been looking for an alternative.


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