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Old 24.02.2017, 14:04
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Banks tracing my accounts

Happy Friday people.

Here's a question I don't have much experience with and cannot ask openly where I work because of obvious reasons, so trying here.

I work for a big Swiss bank and they do not let you have a trading account with any other bank, as they want to ensure no insider trading is done. I don't mind, that's all good and fine, I think it's great so we don't lower our already poor reputation even more. However, just because I am a bank employee, it doesn't mean I have insider information. If it wasn't for the case that each trade through the bank costs me approx. 75-90CHF (total of 150-180 for a buy and sell), I would not even raise this issue (mounts up when doing 3-8 trades per month). Yes, you read right – up to 180CHF for one trade (yet we managed to pull a 2.4b loss)

Now, my question is threefold –
  • Is it legal to not let your employees have trading accounts with other banks? Does anyone have experience with similar issues? I would appreciate if I could be directed to similar cases as I would then bring this topic up with compliance department (and probably be made redundant two weeks later…)
  • Here's the tricky question that cannot be asked here of course – assume I would open an account with an online broker not based in CH (let's say IB), assume that, while the trader account is in my name, the account were the CHF is transferred to / from is in someone else's name – what are the possibilities for big bank to find out that online broker is mine? I am asking as this would be against bank policy, but I do not think against country law. What worries me with this is the perspective of tax consequences. I would assume the money back from tax returns will go into my own account as trades are done in my name (I am very keen on making sure that taxes that should be paid at YE are rightfully paid). Will big bank be able to trace these tax payments / returns to online broker and then to me? Please keep in mind here, just in case I am unclear – I do NOT want to do any tax evasion, quite the contrary, I am extremely keen on ensuring that taxes are correctly paid. As we all know, the root of all evil are politicians, but the tax office have the power to raise the dead to ensure they get what they want. Don't wanna be on bad terms with them, don't want that, okay?
  • Would it be wise to open a bank account with a small local bank here in CH, link my online broker to that bank and have any tax payments / returns to that account? Can this account be traced by the current bank I am working with?
Clearly I am most interested in solving this by understanding point a. The other options would most likely not even happen as not worth the risk...


Extract from the mile long policy jungle we have to follow:
You should maintain your Employee Personal Trading Accounts at "big bank" or a designated broker, as applicable in your jurisdiction (see regional/divisional supplements to this policy). Where these requirements exist you may only maintain your Employee Personal Trading Accounts outside "big bank"if:
The Employee Personal Trading Account is disclosed to the Compliance and, in some locations, approved by appropriate management and Compliance; and
Account statements or contract notes are provided to appropriate management and/or the Compliance upon request or otherwise in accordance with policy requirements applicable to your location or business area.
This disclosure requirement applies to all Employee Personal Trading Accounts, including discretionary accounts where the employee has fully delegated the investment decision to a third party by means of a discretionary investment management agreement. Employee numbered accounts with brokerage capabilities may only be opened with written permission from the Compliance.
Swiss-based employees with a Swiss working contract must maintain their Securities Safekeeping Accounts and Related Cash Accounts in which they have any form of ownership interestat a bank belonging to "big bank". Any exceptions to this rule must be referred to the Compliance Switzerland for approval. Where an exception is granted, Swiss-based employees must disclose externally held Securities Safekeeping and Related Cash Accounts in accordance with the above requirements.

Cheers,
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Old 24.02.2017, 14:06
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Re: Banks tracing my accounts

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Happy Friday people.

Here's a question I don't have much experience with and cannot ask openly where I work because of obvious reasons, so trying here.

I work for a big Swiss bank and they do not let you have a trading account with any other bank, as they want to ensure no insider trading is done. I don't mind, that's all good and fine, I think it's great so we don't lower our already poor reputation even more. However, just because I am a bank employee, it doesn't mean I have insider information. If it wasn't for the case that each trade through the bank costs me approx. 75-90CHF (total of 150-180 for a buy and sell), I would not even raise this issue (mounts up when doing 3-8 trades per month). Yes, you read right – up to 180CHF for one trade (yet we managed to pull a 2.4b loss)

Now, my question is threefold –
  • Is it legal to not let your employees have trading accounts with other banks? Does anyone have experience with similar issues? I would appreciate if I could be directed to similar cases as I would then bring this topic up with compliance department (and probably be made redundant two weeks later…)
  • Here's the tricky question that cannot be asked here of course – assume I would open an account with an online broker not based in CH (let's say IB), assume that, while the trader account is in my name, the account were the CHF is transferred to / from is in someone else's name – what are the possibilities for big bank to find out that online broker is mine? I am asking as this would be against bank policy, but I do not think against country law. What worries me with this is the perspective of tax consequences. I would assume the money back from tax returns will go into my own account as trades are done in my name (I am very keen on making sure that taxes that should be paid at YE are rightfully paid). Will big bank be able to trace these tax payments / returns to online broker and then to me? Please keep in mind here, just in case I am unclear – I do NOT want to do any tax evasion, quite the contrary, I am extremely keen on ensuring that taxes are correctly paid. As we all know, the root of all evil are politicians, but the tax office have the power to raise the dead to ensure they get what they want. Don't wanna be on bad terms with them, don't want that, okay?
  • Would it be wise to open a bank account with a small local bank here in CH, link my online broker to that bank and have any tax payments / returns to that account? Can this account be traced by the current bank I am working with?
Clearly I am most interested in solving this by understanding point a. The other options would most likely not even happen as not worth the risk...


Extract from the mile long policy jungle we have to follow:
You should maintain your Employee Personal Trading Accounts at "big bank" or a designated broker, as applicable in your jurisdiction (see regional/divisional supplements to this policy). Where these requirements exist you may only maintain your Employee Personal Trading Accounts outside "big bank"if:
The Employee Personal Trading Account is disclosed to the Compliance and, in some locations, approved by appropriate management and Compliance; and
Account statements or contract notes are provided to appropriate management and/or the Compliance upon request or otherwise in accordance with policy requirements applicable to your location or business area.
This disclosure requirement applies to all Employee Personal Trading Accounts, including discretionary accounts where the employee has fully delegated the investment decision to a third party by means of a discretionary investment management agreement. Employee numbered accounts with brokerage capabilities may only be opened with written permission from the Compliance.
Swiss-based employees with a Swiss working contract must maintain their Securities Safekeeping Accounts and Related Cash Accounts in which they have any form of ownership interestat a bank belonging to "big bank". Any exceptions to this rule must be referred to the Compliance Switzerland for approval. Where an exception is granted, Swiss-based employees must disclose externally held Securities Safekeeping and Related Cash Accounts in accordance with the above requirements.

Cheers,
It's a compliance issue. It will be the same with other Banks.
You could just stop working & then your free to do what you want. You can't have your cake & eat it when your a highly paid Banker who may receive privileged information.
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Old 24.02.2017, 14:08
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Re: Banks tracing my accounts

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when your a highly paid Banker who may receive privileged information.
You mean like a full USGAAP balance sheet prior to release?
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Old 24.02.2017, 14:08
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Re: Banks tracing my accounts

All depends on how much you would like to keep your job?


It´s a compliance thing, either accept it or risk loosing your job when found out you have a broker account with another bank.
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Old 24.02.2017, 14:17
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Re: Banks tracing my accounts

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You mean like a full USGAAP balance sheet prior to release?
Arranging finance for a bid is just as likely, possibly many months in advance.
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Old 24.02.2017, 14:33
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Re: Banks tracing my accounts

Thanks for answers peeps,


I kind of knew not so smart to combine the questions - More than anything, I am keen to know if it's legal to restrict employees to use their money as they wish, which vendor to use etc.


Understand it is a compliance issue and that's all good and fine, hence in same policy, it is stated that *should you have* account with other banks, they may request extracts and should be allowed to get such, which I am also fine with.


My issue is really the ~200CHF per trade fee while this can be done for almost 1/10 of same price. Meanwhile I have also argued that I would be willing to not only share all transactions w Compliance, but also get clearance before buy / sell.


Game is even at this point, I have not been fully rejected but mainly looking at the legality of this behavior.


Cheers,
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Old 24.02.2017, 14:35
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Re: Banks tracing my accounts

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Thanks for answers peeps,


I kind of knew not so smart to combine the questions - More than anything, I am keen to know if it's legal to restrict employees to use their money as they wish, which vendor to use etc.


Cheers,
Yes, as long as you work with that bank. Apart from that, wasn´t it part of your work contract?
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Old 24.02.2017, 14:35
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Re: Banks tracing my accounts

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Thanks for answers peeps,


I kind of knew not so smart to combine the questions - More than anything, I am keen to know if it's legal to restrict employees to use their money as they wish, which vendor to use etc.


Understand it is a compliance issue and that's all good and fine, hence in same policy, it is stated that *should you have* account with other banks, they may request extracts and should be allowed to get such, which I am also fine with.


My issue is really the ~200CHF per trade fee while this can be done for almost 1/10 of same price. Meanwhile I have also argued that I would be willing to not only share all transactions w Compliance, but also get clearance before buy / sell.


Game is even at this point, I have not been fully rejected but mainly looking at the legality of this behavior.


Cheers,
Your highly paid, you probably receive a bonus that exceeds your trading fees even at 200 a shot.
Your employer would rather fire you than take a risk, your very naive.
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Old 24.02.2017, 14:45
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Re: Banks tracing my accounts

Yes, it's legal.
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Old 24.02.2017, 14:45
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Re: Banks tracing my accounts

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Your highly paid, you probably receive a bonus that exceeds your trading fees even at 200 a shot.
Your employer would rather fire you than take a risk, your very naive.
No doubt he can afford it but no bank can justify 200.- trade. You're* naive to think that anyone with a high salary should pay more for something simply because they're paid more. With that, the OP is probably stuck with those fee as long as he stays with the bank.
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Old 24.02.2017, 14:46
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Re: Banks tracing my accounts

Why not make use of the follwing clause:

"Any exceptions to this rule must be referred to the Compliance Switzerland for approval. Where an exception is granted, Swiss-based employees must disclose externally held Securities Safekeeping and Related Cash Accounts in accordance with the above requirements."

Then all is good and everyone is happy.
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Old 24.02.2017, 14:47
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Re: Banks tracing my accounts

that's interesting - I wasn't sure that's allowed (as in just because you work for Migros, you can't buy at Coop kind of thing).


Any case, no we have miles of rules to follow so they don't state everything in the contract, instead it says as an umbrella that bank rules and policies must be adhered to (or something along those lines), just like all other contracts.


I am not trying to argue, merely trying to understand the legality of this behavior, I cannot recall seeing something similar elsewhere. This policy came in place less than a year ago so making things more interesting.
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Old 24.02.2017, 14:48
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Re: Banks tracing my accounts

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No doubt he can afford it but no bank can justify 200.- trade. You're* naive to think that anyone with a high salary should pay more for something simply because they're paid more.
Your not comparing like with like, compliance cost the bank a fortune, they would rather employee's don't trade on their own account. They are paid a high salary for a good reason, the bank does not want any conflicts of interest with employees.
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Old 24.02.2017, 14:50
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Re: Banks tracing my accounts

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Your highly paid, you probably receive a bonus that exceeds your trading fees even at 200 a shot.
Your employer would rather fire you than take a risk, your very naive.


hefty Friday discussion started! lol


yes on all comments except last two - indeed we are in discussion on if I should be allowed to open another account elsewhere as big bank does not facilitate all type of trades I would like to conduct, so that means that you're wrong there.
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Old 24.02.2017, 14:50
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Re: Banks tracing my accounts

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that's interesting - I wasn't sure that's allowed (as in just because you work for Migros, you can't buy at Coop kind of thing).


Any case, no we have miles of rules to follow so they don't state everything in the contract, instead it says as an umbrella that bank rules and policies must be adhered to (or something along those lines), just like all other contracts.


I am not trying to argue, merely trying to understand the legality of this behavior, I cannot recall seeing something similar elsewhere. This policy came in place less than a year ago so making things more interesting.

Seems normal to me in almost any bank, have had this clause with all the banks I worked for. In most cases I disclosed what I intended to buy (elsewhere), gave them access to an overview of my portfolio and all was well.


And as the policies are referred to in your contract, it is a part of your contract.


So ask them if you can trade elsewhere if you disclose that? Obviously avoiding black out periods etc
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Old 24.02.2017, 14:55
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Re: Banks tracing my accounts

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Why not make use of the follwing clause:

"Any exceptions to this rule must be referred to the Compliance Switzerland for approval. Where an exception is granted, Swiss-based employees must disclose externally held Securities Safekeeping and Related Cash Accounts in accordance with the above requirements."

Then all is good and everyone is happy.


That's exactly what I am doing now actually and it does look fine, so long as I trade in assets that big bank cannot supply. With that said, really I am mostly keen on the fact that you restrict someone to use his money as he / she wishes.


As example - I doubt your company would be allowed to say - "you may not use your salary to purchase drugs" however, they may very well say that "if you get jail, you cannot work with us due to compliance reasons" (so is done in banks) or "you may not come to work stone as shit, or you're fired" (haven't seen this in our policies, but would guess something similar can be found".


Using same principle - I don't see how bank can restrict you from using your money as you wish for legal purposes - however if illegal trade is done, you're fired, same logic as above.


logic makes sense?
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Old 24.02.2017, 14:58
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Re: Banks tracing my accounts

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Using same principle - I don't see how bank can restrict you from using your money as you wish for legal purposes - however if illegal trade is done, you're fired, same logic as above.


logic makes sense?


Makes sense to me :-)
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Old 24.02.2017, 15:01
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Re: Banks tracing my accounts

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Thanks for answers peeps,


I kind of knew not so smart to combine the questions - More than anything, I am keen to know if it's legal to restrict employees to use their money as they wish, which vendor to use etc.


Understand it is a compliance issue and that's all good and fine, hence in same policy, it is stated that *should you have* account with other banks, they may request extracts and should be allowed to get such, which I am also fine with.


My issue is really the ~200CHF per trade fee while this can be done for almost 1/10 of same price. Meanwhile I have also argued that I would be willing to not only share all transactions w Compliance, but also get clearance before buy / sell.


Game is even at this point, I have not been fully rejected but mainly looking at the legality of this behavior.


Cheers,

You really think "compliance" is interested ?

They don't give a shit, nor about you, follow the rules or pack your bag, you're a very small cog in a very large machine !
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Old 24.02.2017, 15:04
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Re: Banks tracing my accounts

Why can't you just open an account and disclose it to compliance and have statements sent to compliance automatically?


I skimmed through your post but from, what I believe to be, quoted text from your compliance rule book is that you are allowed to do that.



Quote:
Extract from the mile long policy jungle we have to follow:
Quote:

You should maintain your Employee Personal Trading Accounts at "big bank" or a designated broker, as applicable in your jurisdiction (see regional/divisional supplements to this policy). Where these requirements exist you may only maintain your Employee Personal Trading Accounts outside "big bank"if:
The Employee Personal Trading Account is disclosed to the Compliance and, in some locations, approved by appropriate management and Compliance; and
Account statements or contract notes are provided to appropriate management and/or the Compliance upon request or otherwise in accordance with policy requirements applicable to your location or business area.
This disclosure requirement applies to all Employee Personal Trading Accounts, including discretionary accounts where the employee has fully delegated the investment decision to a third party by means of a discretionary investment management agreement. Employee numbered accounts with brokerage capabilities may only be opened with written permission from the Compliance.
Swiss-based employees with a Swiss working contract must maintain their Securities Safekeeping Accounts and Related Cash Accounts in which they have any form of ownership interestat a bank belonging to "big bank". Any exceptions to this rule must be referred to the Compliance Switzerland for approval. Where an exception is granted, Swiss-based employees must disclose externally held Securities Safekeeping and Related Cash Accounts in accordance with the above requirements.
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Old 24.02.2017, 15:15
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Re: Banks tracing my accounts

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Why can't you just open an account and disclose it to compliance and have statements sent to compliance automatically?


I skimmed through your post but from, what I believe to be, quoted text from your compliance rule book is that you are allowed to do that.


[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]
[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]


This is definitely the route I want to take - however, the legality in the policy is what initially baffled me - now I have to find a fund / etf / warrant / obscure resource that cannot be traded on the big bank site, but can be traded on the IB site.
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