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Old 07.04.2017, 11:53
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Receiving 150k money: will I be questioned?

Hi,

I am a newbie to this forum and I've found it very helpful in many areas of topics. Thank you all for all those helpful information! However I have a question regarding receiving money, which I couldn't find a thread covering this topic. Therefore I open a new one. My apologize if it had been discussed elsewhere.

Background
I want to receive around CHF 300k in my UBS bank account to finance the down payment of an apartment.

Half of the money will be sent from my own account in a bank in an non-EU and non-US country. The other half will be borrowed from my friends in Switzerland.

Question
1. For the money sent from my own foreign bank account: will the bank/government question me on receiving this "large" amount of money? Should I expect to provide any evidence that can proove the source of the money.

2. Will I be taxed for any reason for receiving the money?

Thank you in advance for any input!
yoo
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Old 07.04.2017, 11:58
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Re: Receiving 150k money: will I be questioned?

If you already owned the 150k in another foreign account then I believe this should have been declared already as part of your wealth (maybe this depends on the cantonal minimum for wealth tax, I don't know).


Therefore they should already be aware and I don't know of any reason why you should pay tax by transferring it to your Swiss account.


Regarding borrowing 150k from a friend, I have no idea...
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Old 07.04.2017, 11:58
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Re: Receiving 150k money: will I be questioned?

can you put me in touch with your friends? i'd like to borrow 150k too! :P

you might gets asked on source of funds, but if from your own account, probably just a copy of the transfer or account statement extract will do.
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Old 07.04.2017, 12:00
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Re: Receiving 150k money: will I be questioned?

Tax Office

Did you declare it on any tax returns?
  • If yes, then OK.
  • If no, then they'll take an interest because it is undeclared wealth (and probably income)

Banks

Banks are bound to report high value transactions too. The EU limit is EUR 10k, dunno what it is here

edit: banks and tax offices are 2 different sections in this answer, for people who want to criticise not understand this

Last edited by gbn; 07.04.2017 at 13:25.
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Old 07.04.2017, 12:14
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Re: Receiving 150k money: will I be questioned?

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Banks are bound to report high value transactions too. The EU limit is EUR 10k, dunno what it is here
My experience shows that 30k is not considered a big money here, so no one cares. 50k is already in the gray zone.

I had once 100k transferred from foreign account after having sold the property abroad (it was never on my tax declaration, as I had no idea how much it was worth). Swiss bank asked for a copy of selling contract, I submitted it, that's it.
They usually want to have at least *some* explanation. How legal and how honest it is - is your responsibility.
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Old 07.04.2017, 12:15
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Re: Receiving 150k money: will I be questioned?

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Banks are bound to report high value transactions too. The EU limit is EUR 10k, dunno what it is here
Not only 10k but also transactions that are not in line with the regular transactions on a bank account. So if you do not transfer it regularly, be prepared to answer questions
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Old 07.04.2017, 12:17
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Re: Receiving 150k money: will I be questioned?

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Did you declare it on any tax returns?
  • If yes, then OK.
  • If no, then they'll take an interest because it is undeclared wealth (and probably income)

Banks are bound to report high value transactions too. The EU limit is EUR 10k, dunno what it is here
Who will take interest and how the bank can check if it's declared or undeclared wealth? They can not when transaction appears in your account. They might ask but probably they will not.

I have received similar amounts from CurrencyFair and I can tell you CF were more interested while the bank here didn't ask a thing.

TIS, "hundreds of thousands" is just not that lot of money here
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Old 07.04.2017, 12:38
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Re: Receiving 150k money: will I be questioned?

Indeed an issue.

With all the Tax sharing acts between the countries its getting complicated by the day.

May be best is to consult with a professional here in CH first
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Old 07.04.2017, 12:40
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Re: Receiving 150k money: will I be questioned?

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Indeed an issue.

With all the Tax sharing acts between the countries its getting complicated by the day.

May be best is to consult with a professional here in CH first
It is not complicated. You should declare your wealth worldwide on your Swiss tax income return. And when you receive funds much higher than normally, just call/email your bank and tell them where you got the money from.

Did that last year when we sold the flat (abroad), no issue at all
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Old 07.04.2017, 12:58
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Re: Receiving 150k money: will I be questioned?

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Did you declare it on any tax returns?
  • If yes, then OK.
  • If no, then they'll take an interest because it is undeclared wealth (and probably income)

Banks are bound to report high value transactions too. The EU limit is EUR 10k, dunno what it is here
Do you actually have to declare assets if you are on "Quellensteuer"? I don't think so, but please prove me wrong.

Once you buy an apartment, even while on "Quellensteuer", you are required to file tax returns from that moment on which means hiding assets will be seen as tax avoidance.

Having assets previously undeclared (when required to do so) may trigger questions, not based on the amount transferred into a bank account, but on grounds of being able to afford a house purchase out of nowhere.

Last edited by glinaa; 07.04.2017 at 13:08. Reason: typo
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Old 07.04.2017, 13:06
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Re: Receiving 150k money: will I be questioned?

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...
I want to receive around CHF 300k in my UBS bank account to finance the down payment of an apartment.
No need to be embarrassed. Poverty isn't shameful in Switzerland.

For the bank declaration, in my experience, the sending bank have asked for a reason for large sums. Here's a few I've used over the years.
  • Repayment of loan - cash deposit in the UK
  • Funding house purchase - ETF CH -> Vietnam
  • Inheritance - ETF UK -> CH
  • Share dealing ETF UK -> CH
  • Getting my money out of the UK before Sterling becomes worthless...

Never had any repercussions. For you "down payment for house purchase" will probably be fine.
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Old 07.04.2017, 13:18
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Re: Receiving 150k money: will I be questioned?

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Who will take interest and how the bank can check if it's declared or undeclared wealth? They can not when transaction appears in your account. They might ask but probably they will not.

I have received similar amounts from CurrencyFair and I can tell you CF were more interested while the bank here didn't ask a thing.

TIS, "hundreds of thousands" is just not that lot of money here
The tax man will take an interest. Let me explain.
  • This year's tax return: XX money in bank, no house
  • Next year's tax return: XX money in bank, 1.5 million house (300k deposit)

Tax office asks:
  • Where did you get 300k from since last year's return?
  • Why was it not declared last year?

This has happened to a colleague after a house sale abroad.
He was retrospectively shafted because assets were not declared.

Nothing all to do with bank's reporting requirements...
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Old 07.04.2017, 13:22
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Re: Receiving 150k money: will I be questioned?

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Do you actually have to declare assets if you are on "Quellensteuer"? I don't think so, but please prove me wrong.

Once you buy an apartment, even while on "Quellensteuer", you are required to file tax returns from that moment on which means hiding assets will be seen as tax avoidance.

Having assets previously undeclared (when required to do so) may trigger questions, not based on the amount transferred into a bank account, but on grounds of being able to afford a house purchase out of nowhere.
From https://en.comparis.ch/umzug-schweiz...rstattung.aspx

Quote:
In particular these are: those with a C permanent resident permit, property owners, employees with a gross income of more than 120,000 francs as well as all foreigners with a spouse who is a Swiss citizen or in possession of a C permit.
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Old 07.04.2017, 13:29
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Re: Receiving 150k money: will I be questioned?

Does this mean that, if a person has a B permit, earns less than 120k per year, does not own a property, yet has considerable wealth (let's say 200k CHF)...they do not need to declare it?
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Old 07.04.2017, 13:35
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Re: Receiving 150k money: will I be questioned?

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Does this mean that, if a person has a B permit, earns less than 120k per year, does not own a property, yet has considerable wealth (let's say 200k CHF)...they do not need to declare it?
Yes, you need to submit

https://www.expatriates-switzerland....n-switzerland/

Quote:
I am solvent, but my income is below CHF 120,000. Do I have to pay wealth taxes?

Since your income is less than CHF 120'000, you do not meet the retrospective tax assessment guidelines. If your assets are greater than CHF 200’000, then you are subject to “additional tax assessment”, which means that you must complete a tax declaration.

The important thing to note here is that the responsibility for the tax declaration comes from yourself.
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Old 07.04.2017, 13:39
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Re: Receiving 150k money: will I be questioned?

I thought so...




and this threshold also varies by Canton I believe
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Old 07.04.2017, 13:45
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Re: Receiving 150k money: will I be questioned?

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Tax Office

Did you declare it on any tax returns?
  • If yes, then OK.
  • If no, then they'll take an interest because it is undeclared wealth (and probably income)

Banks

Banks are bound to report high value transactions too. The EU limit is EUR 10k, dunno what it is here

edit: banks and tax offices are 2 different sections in this answer, for people who want to criticise not understand this
Hi gbn,

Thank you for the reply.

I didn't declare the CHF 150k this year because I received the money as a gift from my parents in 2017. Therefore I didn't think it should/can be reflected in the 2016 tax declaration form.

Is there a way that I can declare this gift at any time, or I can wait until early 2018 when I submit the tax delcaration form for 2017?

Thank you
yxyyxx
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Old 07.04.2017, 13:46
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Re: Receiving 150k money: will I be questioned?

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Hi gbn,

Thank you for the reply.

I didn't declare the CHF 150k this year because I received the money as a gift from my parents in 2017. Therefore I didn't think it should/can be reflected in the 2016 tax declaration form.

Is there a way that I can declare this gift at any time, or I can wait until early 2018 when I submit the tax delcaration form for 2017?

Thank you
yxyyxx
YouŽll need to declare it in the 2017 tax form
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Old 07.04.2017, 13:48
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Re: Receiving 150k money: will I be questioned?

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Hi gbn,

Thank you for the reply.

I didn't declare the CHF 150k this year because I received the money as a gift from my parents in 2017. Therefore I didn't think it should/can be reflected in the 2016 tax declaration form.

Is there a way that I can declare this gift at any time, or I can wait until early 2018 when I submit the tax delcaration form for 2017?

Thank you
yxyyxx
a gift you say? are you sure?

https://www.credit-suisse.com/media/...tabelle-en.pdf

Check if gift tax applies. maybe your parents meant it to be a loan

Last edited by Phil_MCR; 08.04.2017 at 10:44. Reason: EDIT for rate mistake
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Old 07.04.2017, 13:49
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Re: Receiving 150k money: will I be questioned?

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Banks are bound to report high value transactions too. The EU limit is EUR 10k, dunno what it is here
25k, and they will only ask you about it, no need to report it.

Anyway, my wife got around 300k from an inheritance, and another 300k from a lawsuit in Italy, transferred to her account, no questions asked.

But she's Swiss.

Tom

Last edited by st2lemans; 07.04.2017 at 15:36.
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