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Old 15.05.2017, 17:01
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The green bubble

Just recently read an article that we are in a green bubble, where valuations in the green tech. sector are unsustainable and that the entire industry is surviving merely due to governmental subsidies.

What is your opinion? Are we in a green bubble?

Looking at the crazy valuation of e.g. Tesla, with a p/e in the negative and share price through the roof... I fear there is some truth to it.
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Old 15.05.2017, 17:58
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Re: The green bubble

Happy to be proved wrong, but I doubt very much that Tesla's primary motivation is saving the environment.

I have no answer re the bubble question btw.
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Old 15.05.2017, 18:02
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Re: The green bubble

Tesla are reals.
Tesla are amazing from many aspects.
Tesla have proven, by facts, that it was possible to switch from petrol cars.
Tesla are paving a way for more safety also, thanks to autonomous driving.

I would not call that a "bubble", regardless of their share value or the market prospects.

They are real and have proven, in a revolutionary way.
If the finance world disagrees, then maybe the finance world is wrong.
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Old 15.05.2017, 19:07
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Re: The green bubble

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Tesla are reals.
Tesla are amazing from many aspects.
Tesla have proven, by facts, that it was possible to switch from petrol cars.
Tesla are paving a way for more safety also, thanks to autonomous driving.

I would not call that a "bubble", regardless of their share value or the market prospects.

They are real and have proven, in a revolutionary way.
If the finance world disagrees, then maybe the finance world is wrong.
Still a lot of paving to do!!

I think Tesla should not concentrate on automatic driving just yet.
I like them but the main problem are the batteries ..... re being environmental.
(Oh and the production of solar panels, apparently still not up to desired standard).
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Old 15.05.2017, 19:15
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Re: The green bubble

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Still a lot of paving to do!!

I think Tesla should not concentrate on automatic driving just yet.
I like them but the main problem are the batteries ..... re being environmental.
(Oh and the production of solar panels, apparently still not up to desired standard).
Saw one the other day, awesome, like something out of star treck.
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Old 15.05.2017, 19:37
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Re: The green bubble

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Saw one the other day, awesome, like something out of star treck.
Until it can also do the laundry I'm not interested. My chauffeur shall have to drive something else.
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Old 15.05.2017, 20:21
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Re: The green bubble

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Just recently read an article that we are in a green bubble, where valuations in the green tech. sector are unsustainable and that the entire industry is surviving merely due to governmental subsidies.

What is your opinion? Are we in a green bubble?

Looking at the crazy valuation of e.g. Tesla, with a p/e in the negative and share price through the roof... I fear there is some truth to it.
My view - yes.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ssions-targets

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...es-government/

http://blogs.ft.com/the-world/files/...y_SR_CHART.png

That's not even considering companies like Tesla making batteries the process of which simply generates more pollution. These type cars are not "eco friendly" and never will be despite their hype. Not saying carbon based fuels are better either, but practical uses for green energy vehicles are limited.

What did Solar Impulse achieve apart from a lot of new "records". The plane itself was nearly the size of a Jumbo and carried one person, took months to make any trips, totally reliant on the weather, etc, etc. If we were back in the days of hot air ballons and air ships maybe it might be able to compete somehow, but we're not.

And where are we going to generate all this increasing electricity need from? Water is more and more scarce, there's less rainfall to fill lakes/reservoirs for power stations so how are we going to do it? Oh, let me guess - coal, oil and nuclear.
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Old 15.05.2017, 22:39
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Re: The green bubble

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Still a lot of paving to do!!

I think Tesla should not concentrate on automatic driving just yet.
I like them but the main problem are the batteries ..... re being environmental.
(Oh and the production of solar panels, apparently still not up to desired standard).
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Old 16.05.2017, 00:52
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Re: The green bubble

I clicked on this thread and I was quite optimistic that it was going to be about forum reputation.

Now my tears of disappointment are falling on my keyboard.
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Old 16.05.2017, 09:29
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Re: The green bubble

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Tesla are reals.
Tesla are amazing from many aspects.
Tesla have proven, by facts, that it was possible to switch from petrol cars.
Tesla are paving a way for more safety also, thanks to autonomous driving.

I would not call that a "bubble", regardless of their share value or the market prospects.

They are real and have proven, in a revolutionary way.
If the finance world disagrees, then maybe the finance world is wrong.
Teslas are nice cars no doubt.
HOWEVER:
Tesla have proven, by facts, that it was possible to switch from petrol cars. No they did not. Range is still nowhere close to that of petrol cars and the source for the electricity is not all coming from "green" energy.
Tesla are paving a way for more safety also, thanks to autonomous driving. This has little to do with the "green" aspect.

If the finance world disagrees, then maybe the finance world is wrong. The finance world is wrong, that is for sure, but the finance world governs the world and Tesla is not financially sustainable at the moment. In a large part taxpayer money is keeping it running. And BTW it might do more harm to the environment than an internal combustion powered car. That is the (sad) truth.

I wish (so badly) we had an alternative truly green source of energy, but right now we don't. The cleanest is still nuclear power. I am confident that if all the money that is now spent on renewable energy would be spent on making nuclear power plant and disposal of nuclear waste safer, those problems would be long solved.
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Old 16.05.2017, 09:44
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Re: The green bubble

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My view - yes.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ssions-targets

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...es-government/

http://blogs.ft.com/the-world/files/...y_SR_CHART.png

That's not even considering companies like Tesla making batteries the process of which simply generates more pollution. These type cars are not "eco friendly" and never will be despite their hype. Not saying carbon based fuels are better either, but practical uses for green energy vehicles are limited.

What did Solar Impulse achieve apart from a lot of new "records". The plane itself was nearly the size of a Jumbo and carried one person, took months to make any trips, totally reliant on the weather, etc, etc. If we were back in the days of hot air ballons and air ships maybe it might be able to compete somehow, but we're not.

And where are we going to generate all this increasing electricity need from? Water is more and more scarce, there's less rainfall to fill lakes/reservoirs for power stations so how are we going to do it? Oh, let me guess - coal, oil and nuclear.
Easy, cull the human population to around a billion, impose strict rules on offspring and have a compulsory death at 70. That way the scarce resources that god (if you believe in such a creature) put on this earth will last a few centuries longer.
Not going to change the end result though, at some point in time, regardless on how much we don´t want it to happen, the resources will be depleted and humans will all become extinct.
How´s that for cheer.
Up until now we as a species have been able to stave off a Malthusian catastrophe, but it´s only a matter of time at some point the notion of economic growth at any price must stop and the bill will be presented.
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Old 16.05.2017, 10:12
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Re: The green bubble

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Teslas are nice cars no doubt.
HOWEVER:
Tesla have proven, by facts, that it was possible to switch from petrol cars. No they did not. Range is still nowhere close to that of petrol cars and the source for the electricity is not all coming from "green" energy.
Tesla are paving a way for more safety also, thanks to autonomous driving. This has little to do with the "green" aspect.

If the finance world disagrees, then maybe the finance world is wrong. The finance world is wrong, that is for sure, but the finance world governs the world and Tesla is not financially sustainable at the moment. In a large part taxpayer money is keeping it running. And BTW it might do more harm to the environment than an internal combustion powered car. That is the (sad) truth.

I wish (so badly) we had an alternative truly green source of energy, but right now we don't. The cleanest is still nuclear power. I am confident that if all the money that is now spent on renewable energy would be spent on making nuclear power plant and disposal of nuclear waste safer, those problems would be long solved.

Tesla have proven, by facts, that it was possible to switch from petrol cars. No they did not. Range is still nowhere close to that of petrol cars and the source for the electricity is not all coming from "green" energy.

Yes they did.
426KM. VS around 800 for a not so old, not so recent petrol car.
And let me reformulate. Who is commuting so long per day?
In practice, for every day use, it's virtually identical.

For long distance, there's superchargers.
But yes, the infrastructure have not coped with Tesla yet. Home power, availability of superchargers... Is it Tesla fault?

Tesla are paving a way for more safety also, thanks to autonomous driving. This has little to do with the "green" aspect.
True. Yet, you can not dissociate a feature of TESLA, which is a revolution in the switch petrol vs newer technology.


If the finance world disagrees, then maybe the finance world is wrong. The finance world is wrong, that is for sure, but the finance world governs the world and Tesla is not financially sustainable at the moment. In a large part taxpayer money is keeping it running. And BTW it might do more harm to the environment than an internal combustion powered car. That is the (sad) truth.

Yes but it does not means it's a green bubble. It's a reality which is not supported by the financial market.
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