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  #21  
Old 22.07.2017, 18:05
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Re: Post Finance Closed My Account and Cleared My Money

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Plus the OP arrived in October and by November was collecting rent from various tenants...
The OP is a non EU student who then wanted a part time job if you believe previous posts. Now a landlord / scam artist
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  #22  
Old 22.07.2017, 18:06
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Re: Post Finance Closed My Account and Cleared My Money

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Plus the OP arrived in October and by November was collecting rent from various tenants...
And never said how OP paid the rent on behalf of his subletters..

I hope you declared you had 4 renters too....
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  #23  
Old 22.07.2017, 21:04
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Re: Post Finance Closed My Account and Cleared My Money

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You de-registered....... something tells me your lying from start to finish. If you de-register it implies your not coming back, not just a 3 week holiday.
I was surprised about how people like to attack others like this.
For no reason, someone would accuse someone of lying.
Do people nowadays that evil, bad, free, to get on a forum to lie?
I thought forum is a place for people with genuine interest to help each other out.

I have my flight ticket to prove that it was a 3-week holiday, I also have the email from the city told me to deregister if I leave the country, and I also have my doctor's note, and even my hospital record when I was at the hospital.

Life happens, things happen, and if I was dumped to listen to a clerk, or open a bank account at a post office, I deserve it. But I do believe in the goodness in people, and would never ever assume the first thing is lying or money laundering.

People who know how to launder money, would ever ask their questions on a forum?

So cheers to the people who like to accuse people, who can't tell right from wrong, life is a much better than you view it. And if I lose all my hard earned money, I know one day I will make a hundred time of it because I am honest.
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  #24  
Old 22.07.2017, 21:07
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Re: Post Finance Closed My Account and Cleared My Money

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I was surprised about how people like to attack others like this.
For no reason, someone would accuse someone of lying.
Do people nowadays that evil, bad, free, to get on a forum to lie?
I thought forum is a place for people with genuine interest to help each other out.

I have my flight ticket to prove that it was a 3-week holiday, I also have the email from the city told me to deregister if I leave the country, and I also have my doctor's note, and even my hospital record when I was at the hospital.

Life happens, things happen, and if I was dumped to listen to a clerk, or open a bank account at a post office, I deserve it. But I do believe in the goodness in people, and would never ever assume the first thing is lying or money laundering.

People who know how to launder money, would ever ask their questions on a forum?

So cheers to the people who like to accuse people, who can't tell right from wrong, life is a much better than you view it. And if I lose all my hard earned money, I know one day I will make a hundred time of it because I am honest.
Going on holiday is not a reason to de register, you do realise you would not be entitled to a residents permit on your return.......... You deregistered as you 'KNEW' you would be away for a long time & did not want to pay health insurance.
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  #25  
Old 22.07.2017, 21:11
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Re: Post Finance Closed My Account and Cleared My Money

The e-mail meant if you left Switzerland permanently, not for a holiday. And if you were coming back why would you ask if you needed to deregister in the first place? It's clear in the many threads here on the forum that that isn't the case.

If you did deregister, how do you come to be here now? You presumably have no residence permit so are you here as a tourist?
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  #26  
Old 22.07.2017, 21:26
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Re: Post Finance Closed My Account and Cleared My Money

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The e-mail meant if you left Switzerland permanently, not for a holiday. And if you were coming back why would you ask if you needed to deregister in the first place? It's clear in the many threads here on the forum that that isn't the case.

If you did deregister, how do you come to be here now? You presumably have no residence permit so are you here as a tourist?
No, someone smuggled me in :-P
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  #27  
Old 22.07.2017, 21:46
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Re: Post Finance Closed My Account and Cleared My Money

Troll alert.
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  #28  
Old 22.07.2017, 21:55
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Re: Post Finance Closed My Account and Cleared My Money

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Troll alert.
Who found the groan button?

OP: if you neglect to adhere to the quite rigid KYC requirements, you are bound to run into issues like these. Deregistering does raise some flags, not telling your bank some more and not having an address where you pick up your registered mail more. You´ll have a h*ll of a time convincing PF that your business - or whatever it is - is legitimate
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Old 22.07.2017, 22:13
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Re: Post Finance Closed My Account and Cleared My Money

OP, I'm sorry but your story just isn't adding up. It's not an attack, it's a bit of incredulity I think. Or missing information. Or both.

Try to look at it from the bank's side. You registered for an account and started receiving money from other people, but you never acknowledged the registered mail they sent to verify your identity, etc. The bank probably contacted the municipality to see if you were properly registered, and learned you were not a resident any more. As you'd not replied to the registered mail and you were no longer resident in CH they closed the account. They don't have to keep it open, particularly if they think something dodgy is going on.

Because you never got in touch with the bank it probably all looked a bit suspect. Now you're back asking for your money again, but they might wonder if you're legit.

Here are the T&Cs which you agreed to, which includes keeping in contact regarding your identity and whereabouts.

https://www.postfinance.ch/content/d..._gtc_sc_en.pdf
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Old 22.07.2017, 22:25
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Re: Post Finance Closed My Account and Cleared My Money

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OP, I'm sorry but your story just isn't adding up. It's not an attack, it's a bit of incredulity I think. Or missing information. Or both.

Try to look at it from the bank's side. You registered for an account and started receiving money from other people, but you never acknowledged the registered mail they sent to verify your identity, etc. The bank probably contacted the municipality to see if you were properly registered, and learned you were not a resident any more. As you'd not replied to the registered mail and you were no longer resident in CH they closed the account. They don't have to keep it open, particularly if they think something dodgy is going on.

Because you never got in touch with the bank it probably all looked a bit suspect. Now you're back asking for your money again, but they might wonder if you're legit.

Here are the T&Cs which you agreed to, which includes keeping in contact regarding your identity and whereabouts.

https://www.postfinance.ch/content/d..._gtc_sc_en.pdf
I doubt the Bank would contact anyone as admitting an account exists is a criminal offence. All the standard controls came back negative, account frozen & thats it. The OP is economical with the truth at best, I don't feel sorry for him in any way.
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  #31  
Old 22.07.2017, 22:51
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Re: Post Finance Closed My Account and Cleared My Money

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I was surprised about how people like to attack others like this.
For no reason, someone would accuse someone of lying.
Do people nowadays that evil, bad, free, to get on a forum to lie?
I thought forum is a place for people with genuine interest to help each other out.

I have my flight ticket to prove that it was a 3-week holiday, I also have the email from the city told me to deregister if I leave the country, and I also have my doctor's note, and even my hospital record when I was at the hospital.

Life happens, things happen, and if I was dumped to listen to a clerk, or open a bank account at a post office, I deserve it. But I do believe in the goodness in people, and would never ever assume the first thing is lying or money laundering.

People who know how to launder money, would ever ask their questions on a forum?

So cheers to the people who like to accuse people, who can't tell right from wrong, life is a much better than you view it. And if I lose all my hard earned money, I know one day I will make a hundred time of it because I am honest.

Even if all you say is true, it doesn't really matter to the bank. You even admit shit happens in life. In most places, but especially here, I doubt a company would go out of its way to help you solve this problem.
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  #32  
Old 22.07.2017, 22:53
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Re: Post Finance Closed My Account and Cleared My Money

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Who found the groan button?

OP: if you neglect to adhere to the quite rigid KYC requirements, you are bound to run into issues like these. Deregistering does raise some flags, not telling your bank some more and not having an address where you pick up your registered mail more. You´ll have a h*ll of a time convincing PF that your business - or whatever it is - is legitimate
The story is definitely not clearly told and possibly just a troll-story.
BUT: If the PF suspects fraud they can freeze the account but must report it to the authorities. PF is not an authority who decides who is crook and who is not.
If they just close the account how are the authorities going to investigate?

If the owner of the account shows up again, they have to inform him and guide him to the authorities they reported him to. That is also where/whom with he can sort things out.

PF can definitely not just close the account and swallow the money. Or did we just speed up the system they had with the Jewish accounts back in the days instead of abandon it?!

OP can go to a Ombudstelle, get advice there if PF does not cooperate.
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  #33  
Old 22.07.2017, 22:58
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Re: Post Finance Closed My Account and Cleared My Money

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The story is definitely not clearly told and possibly just a troll-story.
BUT: If the PF suspects fraud they can freeze the account but must report it to the authorities. PF is not an authority who decides who is crook and who is not.
If they just close the account how are the authorities going to investigate?

If the owner of the account shows up again, they have to inform him and guide him to the authorities they reported him to. That is also where/whom with he can sort things out.

PF can definitely not just close the account and swallow the money. Or did we just speed up the system they had with the Jewish accounts back in the days instead of abandon it?!

OP can go to a Ombudstelle, get advice there if PF does not cooperate.
I had a bank block a bank account abroad for incoming transfers because of a fraudulent transaction (at work). There is a multitude of possibilities what could have happened. Until we know more, and we won´t, OP can only find out more by talking to the bank or, as mentioned, the Ombudsman.
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  #34  
Old 23.07.2017, 03:03
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Re: Post Finance Closed My Account and Cleared My Money

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We do not know why the bank took this action, there was clearly a red flag raised
If what OP said is the truth, then it is up to the bank to tell him how and why and not simply tell a clear lie that they never got the money. If his story is not the truth, well... then who cares whatever they do?
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  #35  
Old 23.07.2017, 04:42
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Re: Post Finance Closed My Account and Cleared My Money

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I doubt the Bank would contact anyone as admitting an account exists is a criminal offence. All the standard controls came back negative, account frozen & thats it. The OP is economical with the truth at best, I don't feel sorry for him in any way.
Again, I started to understand things. But I was surprised that you kept attacking me calling me names: Launder money, scam artist, troll? Way to make my pains salty.

If people read my post on here will know this, my student visa got approved late, and I ended up in Switzerland 3 weeks later than the start of my semester. So I came on October 8th. When I went register with the city, I also read on this forum that Post Finance allowed ppl to open a bank account with just the notification of registering at the city. I went there to the location on the way to school, and met a young clerk. She said everything was fine, I could transfer money.

Now the reason I need ppl to transfer me money here. I have ran a small airbnb business for 4 years. Because of words of mouth, I get people to rent on Facebook page, I am not mentioning its name because I do not want mean people here, go on there to make things worse for me. That is how I feel about people on this forum now. I have renters that are from Europe most of the time coming for internships, they usually stay for 3 months.

At the time of November when I started a bank account with the Post, there were 4 of these renters that need to pay me their rent. I normally asked them to paypal me. I have an American account that I used to pay rent, and in America we use RentPayment to pay rent online, which you can use a credit card, a debit card, or electronic banking. But since I am in Switzerland for school, and didn't want to keep paying exchange rate fees, also paypal charges fee. To cut all these fees, I asked the renters from Europe to transfer money directly to my account.

There were 4 of them, and the total amount is only $6K. I didn't want to mention the number because it was embarrassingly small, but for me, it is a huge amount to survive. Anyway, they sent me money as I told them to, and it saved them money sending it directly there, so they just screenshot their confirmation to me and I assumed everything was good.

Waiting for a month, and I haven't received a bank card. I got in the post was a notice, I couldn't read, without google translate. I was remembering it requests for my residence permit and something with $25 fees/month starting January. So I went to the post, and the same clerk was there, I showed her my permit and the letter. She said I just had to wait for the card, and that everything is ok. I think it must have been my mistake for not understanding the documents, but it was in German, not in English. Since in America, once you opened the account at the bank, it is pretty set and done, so I didn't understand the Swiss banking procedure at this point.

Due to housing problem, my roommate in Luzern, who was on the lease, moved out, and so my sublet for 3 months ended before Christmas. Because of the break, I went to the US till January 22nd. I changed my sim card, and couldn't be reached by phone. I was away, and because someone else moved in the apartment, and I went away for only a month, so this time I didn't deregister or tell the city because I am only going away for a vacation. Now, these are my assumptions of what happened. The post sent a registered mail during this time, and the new tenant confirmed that I do not live here, and then the account got closed. I also get an email from the city telling me to de-register. I responded and told them about my plan of coming back for a week Jan 22-28 for my finals, and then head out to Vietnam for 3 weeks. At this point, I have moved out from the old address for 1 month, and will be without an address for another 4 weeks, so they told me to just deregister and re-register when I get back. I wrote back, that I will re-register when I get back. And I am only here for the 4th day so far, I will go to the city office to register soon.

Anyway, the 3 weeks vacation went long because I got sick. If people think, I lie, whatever, I am just explaining myself. I still do not know the account was closed. There is a guest from Germany who wanted to stay for only 3 days, so I asked her to transfer 90 euros to the account in April (I was in Vietnam sick during this time, and worked on my computer) She sent me her confirmation, and said the payment went through. Again, idiot me thought the account works. Since I paid my rent but couldn't come back, my roommate refunded me money in June also though that account, and she said it went through. I couldn't check that account online since it was not officially opened (I finally understood this now) I thought it was ok again. I kept the record myself, and calculated all the money in the account to be $6K. No one pities me for losing such a small amount of money, right?

I came back, and went to the Post on Friday morning. The first time I heard, I was shocked and in disbelief, ran back to my airbnb rental, and started messages the 4 renters, the girl who stayed for 3 days, and my old roommate. It took them a day to responded back, now 4 of them responded back saying they would check their accounts once they are back from vacation, one told me she did not get any money back, and 1 didn't respond. Anyway, after looking into my chat history, I got two payment confirmations. I went back to the bank at Post Finance and saw a different banker. He called someone, and was on the phone speaking Swiss German, and then told me there was no transaction on my account. But I told him there was one in June. He kept saying nothing he could do when I asked for proof that the money got reversed back to accounts of the senders. I then left.

The systems are different. I listened to a novice clerk who couldn't explain well what I need to wait for and that I shouldn't let people transfer money to that account yet. I also made the mistake of not reporting a new address with the post, but I have no address at that time. This is my lesson learned. But again, the question is where the money went? I will go to the Post again on Monday, and try all the advices on here.

I am a student, so my insurance is dirt cheap of $95 for a quarter, so no, I do not need to avoid paying insurance. It is called SwissCare if you don't know. As a student, I am looking for a part-time job, and I don't think there is nothing wrong with that. I am renting out places in the US for income when in Switzerland, not sure if that violates any rules. But I have time for a part-time job, so I am looking. I don't see anything wrong with that, and why people would jump into conclusion that I lied when I was just trying to have a short story for others to understand and help me with suggestions.

I want to say thank you to those who helped me understand the problem. Even though it looks like it won't be resolved, understanding what went wrong helped me learned my lesson.

To those who jumped into conclusion, and kept trying to analyse what was wrong with my stories, I found it sad and sour and bitter, so I woke up at 3am in the morning to reply. I found you similar to that crazy person who stirs people up in a reality TV show, trying to get some dramas and score some popularity vote.

I am trying to take it light. Again, $6K is huge for me right now, but again, I am trying my best to understand things, learn from my mistakes, try to find a way, but most importantly, move on from it.

This will be my last post because I am exhausted explaining myself, and to people who always doubt everything. Maybe living like no one is to be trusted will help me prevent making mistakes. But hey, I'd rather fail then live like that.

Again, thank you Forum for a place to learn one of the most important in life: there are many kinds of people in the world, some are helpful, and some are trouble makers. I do not need to listen to negativity. Be strong, because it will be fine in the end. If it is not fine, it is not the end, and I need to keep on moving.
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  #36  
Old 23.07.2017, 09:53
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Re: Post Finance Closed My Account and Cleared My Money

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Again, I started to understand things. But I was surprised that you kept attacking me calling me names: Launder money, scam artist, troll? Way to make my pains salty.
No one is saying attacking you. They are just commenting that this is how it appears from an objective view. You may truly think that is not your intent, but the fact is, from the information at hand, it could be classified as that.

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Now the reason I need ppl to transfer me money here. I have ran a small airbnb business for 4 years. Because of words of mouth, I get people to rent on Facebook page, I am not mentioning its name because I do not want mean people here, go on there to make things worse for me. That is how I feel about people on this forum now. I have renters that are from Europe most of the time coming for internships, they usually stay for 3 months.
1. Is Airbnb allowed in Canton Luzern as a BUSINESS? Are you declaring it?
2. Airbnb DOES NOT ALLOW for payment outside their system.
3. You still haven't said how you came into possession of a 4? 5? 6? room flat that you can rent out...

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At the time of November when I started a bank account with the Post, there were 4 of these renters that need to pay me their rent. I normally asked them to paypal me. I have an American account that I used to pay rent, and in America we use RentPayment to pay rent online, which you can use a credit card, a debit card, or electronic banking. But since I am in Switzerland for school, and didn't want to keep paying exchange rate fees, also paypal charges fee. To cut all these fees, I asked the renters from Europe to transfer money directly to my account.
Why are they paying you by wire transfer? Airbnb does not allow for payments outside their system.

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There were 4 of them, and the total amount is only $6K. I didn't want to mention the number because it was embarrassingly small, but for me, it is a huge amount to survive. Anyway, they sent me money as I told them to, and it saved them money sending it directly there, so they just screenshot their confirmation to me and I assumed everything was good.
It doesn't matter if the amount is small. But if indeed it is a lot for you, why didn't you check to see if the amounts in your account??? This does not make sense.

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Waiting for a month, and I haven't received a bank card. I got in the post was a notice, I couldn't read, without google translate. I was remembering it requests for my residence permit and something with $25 fees/month starting January. So I went to the post, and the same clerk was there, I showed her my permit and the letter. She said I just had to wait for the card, and that everything is ok. I think it must have been my mistake for not understanding the documents, but it was in German, not in English. Since in America, once you opened the account at the bank, it is pretty set and done, so I didn't understand the Swiss banking procedure at this point.
Understandable but never assume anything.

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Due to housing problem, my roommate in Luzern, who was on the lease, moved out, and so my sublet for 3 months ended before Christmas. Because of the break, I went to the US till January 22nd. I changed my sim card, and couldn't be reached by phone. I was away, and because someone else moved in the apartment, and I went away for only a month, so this time I didn't deregister or tell the city because I am only going away for a vacation. Now, these are my assumptions of what happened. The post sent a registered mail during this time, and the new tenant confirmed that I do not live here, and then the account got closed. I also get an email from the city telling me to de-register. I responded and told them about my plan of coming back for a week Jan 22-28 for my finals, and then head out to Vietnam for 3 weeks. At this point, I have moved out from the old address for 1 month, and will be without an address for another 4 weeks, so they told me to just deregister and re-register when I get back. I wrote back, that I will re-register when I get back. And I am only here for the 4th day so far, I will go to the city office to register soon.
1. Ok so let me get this straight. You were airbnbing a flat to four people. You also were staying in a different flat with a roommate who left prematurely.

At least in Canton Geneva, that is certainly not allowed. One is only able to sublet/airbnb as true business (without making additional profit), if one is the tenant or owner. You can't be the tenant of two flats.

2. Are you talking about registering your place of residence or some other type of registration? The german word would be useful here...

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Anyway, the 3 weeks vacation went long because I got sick. If people think, I lie, whatever, I am just explaining myself. I still do not know the account was closed. There is a guest from Germany who wanted to stay for only 3 days, so I asked her to transfer 90 euros to the account in April (I was in Vietnam sick during this time, and worked on my computer) She sent me her confirmation, and said the payment went through. Again, idiot me thought the account works. Since I paid my rent but couldn't come back, my roommate refunded me money in June also though that account, and she said it went through. I couldn't check that account online since it was not officially opened (I finally understood this now) I thought it was ok again. I kept the record myself, and calculated all the money in the account to be $6K. No one pities me for losing such a small amount of money, right?
Fine you go away.
Fine you believe her confirmation.

In the above paragraph, you said your roommate moved out. How in the world do you have a new roommate when you aren't even in the country?

How do you STILL have 6000 in your account? You mentioned that you are doing the Airbnb for a few months from 4 people.. Unless YOU had access to send the money out (which you claim you do not), then there should be more than 6000?

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I came back, and went to the Post on Friday morning. The first time I heard, I was shocked and in disbelief, ran back to my airbnb rental, and started messages the 4 renters, the girl who stayed for 3 days, and my old roommate. It took them a day to responded back, now 4 of them responded back saying they would check their accounts once they are back from vacation, one told me she did not get any money back, and 1 didn't respond. Anyway, after looking into my chat history, I got two payment confirmations. I went back to the bank at Post Finance and saw a different banker. He called someone, and was on the phone speaking Swiss German, and then told me there was no transaction on my account. But I told him there was one in June. He kept saying nothing he could do when I asked for proof that the money got reversed back to accounts of the senders. I then left.
You have to talk to someone on the phone, someone at the postoffice knows nothing.

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I am a student, so my insurance is dirt cheap of $95 for a quarter, so no, I do not need to avoid paying insurance. It is called SwissCare if you don't know. As a student, I am looking for a part-time job, and I don't think there is nothing wrong with that. I am renting out places in the US for income when in Switzerland, not sure if that violates any rules. But I have time for a part-time job, so I am looking. I don't see anything wrong with that, and why people would jump into conclusion that I lied when I was just trying to have a short story for others to understand and help me with suggestions.
You don't see it as wrong, but it COULD be wrong. That is why we are suggesting all these "nasty" things as you would describe them. If your permit doesn't allow you to work, no matter your situation, you shouldn't work until you clarify your restrictions.

Suggestion: Clarify all the points in your story above. If we don't buy it here (even if it is 101% factual), the bank or commune won't as well...
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Old 23.07.2017, 10:29
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Re: Post Finance Closed My Account and Cleared My Money

Let's be clear here, the OP wasn't using a flat here for AirBnB, it's in the States or in Vietnam is my impression. At least I hope so because otherwise I too don't understand how he could get a big place to rent and then use it for AirBnB - landlords usually won't rent big places like that to single people.

klausenhauser, how would you suggest he check his account? Presumably he had no account number since he didn't yet have his PostFinance card, no paperwork with it either and not able to use e-banking if he signed up for that too. Short of a personal visit to a Post Office branch there was no way to check it. Any statements, if they were issued, were probably sent to the old address, but that would depend on when PostFinance decided to close the account down.

hanhuyen, when you open an account in Switzerland usually you're given a choice of which language you want documentation to be in. English isn't always an option, but I think it is for PostFinance - certainly we get our PF statements in English.

If you feel we're being hard we're not - well, at least not all of us. But if your last post had been your first you might have gotten a different reaction. It has more detail and makes the situation clearer. I know English isn't your first language, but for these complicated scenarios the more info provided the better.

A final thought, do you trust that your renters are telling you the truth when they say they haven't received their money back? If the sums involved are large for them then it's possible they are lying and have had the money returned. Sorry, if this sounds harsh, but unfortunately there are bad people in the world as we all know and they may be taking advantage of the situation.
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Old 23.07.2017, 10:37
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Re: Post Finance Closed My Account and Cleared My Money

OP, now that you have mentioned America, what's your connection to the US?

Are you a citizen, do you have a green card, do you have another US permit? When you left Switzerland did you leave a US address or anything else that would be a US connection?

If you hit any of the 'US Persons' indices without having filled out the necessary forms, that could be a reason to freeze an account. Banks look for these when performing KYC due diligence. Because of the harsh penalties imposed on Swiss banks who even unwittingly allow undeclared 'US Persons' on their books (at least temporary) measures might be taken at even a hint of non-compliance.


Again, go to someone higher up at Post Finance, not just a clerk, or contact an Ombudsman. We can't do anything but guess.
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Old 23.07.2017, 11:11
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Re: Post Finance Closed My Account and Cleared My Money

I have a Post Finance account - all communication and online banking is in English. I ticked the box.

My experience is that Swiss bank accounts are not set up immediately and various forms need to be completed and signed, usually by post, some days after agreeing everything face to face in a branch...
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Old 23.07.2017, 11:16
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Re: Post Finance Closed My Account and Cleared My Money

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No, someone smuggled me in :-P
I doubt it anyone would bother
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