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Old 11.08.2017, 15:26
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Pillar 2 vesting account recommendations?

I have a small second pillar fund (just under 50k) and intend to move back to the UK soon. I understand that one of the best vested accounts is with Pensfree in Schwyz; however, they only deal with funds of 100k or more.

Can anyone recommend a vesting account for a fund of less than 50k which has a very low withholding tax? (I reside in Vaud, so hope that I can open one in another canton with a lower rate).

Many thanks.
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Old 11.08.2017, 16:39
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Re: Pillar 2 vesting account recommendations?

Suggest you look at Liberty-Vorsorge.ch in Zug
Website: select English (upper right hand corner), click "private clients" on left column, click "Vested Benefits" on tab in middle
You won't get much of any interest in this market, but it's fee-free, secure, and insured up to SFr 100k per account.
Of course, conditions apply (you have to be moving abroad, becoming unemployed, getting divorced, etc.) to open account. If you ever return to CH to work in future, they then transfer to 2nd Column account with your new employer plan.
Administrators for your current pension scheme should be familiar with this company, they can directly transfer your money to them upon confirmation of eligibility.
Good luck!
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Old 11.08.2017, 16:43
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Re: Pillar 2 vesting account recommendations?

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I have a small second pillar fund (just under 50k) and intend to move back to the UK soon. I understand that one of the best vested accounts is with Pensfree in Schwyz; however, they only deal with funds of 100k or more.

Can anyone recommend a vesting account for a fund of less than 50k which has a very low withholding tax? (I reside in Vaud, so hope that I can open one in another canton with a lower rate).

Many thanks.
Where is the pension now? Normally it will cost you 500 chef to move it, so possibly not worth while especially as you will have 2 anal Swiss pension companies to deal with rather than 1. You also need to confirm the tax situation in the UK with regard to the Swiss pension.

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Suggest you look at Liberty-Vorsorge.ch in Zug
Website: select English (upper right hand corner), click "private clients" on left column, click "Vested Benefits" on tab in middle
You won't get much of any interest in this market, but it's fee-free, secure, and insured up to SFr 100k per account.
Of course, conditions apply (you have to be moving abroad, becoming unemployed, getting divorced, etc.) to open account. If you ever return to CH to work in future, they then transfer to 2nd Column account with your new employer plan.
Administrators for your current pension scheme should be familiar with this company, they can directly transfer your money to them upon confirmation of eligibility.
Good luck!
OP is looking to cash it in, so nothing left to transfer on a return to CH.
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Old 11.08.2017, 16:55
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Re: Pillar 2 vesting account recommendations?

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Where is the pension now? Normally it will cost you 500 chef to move it, so possibly not worth while especially as you will have 2 anal Swiss pension companies to deal with rather than 1. You also need to confirm the tax situation in the UK with regard to the Swiss pension.



OP is looking to cash it in, so nothing left to transfer on a return to CH.
You can't cash it all in. Only the non-mandatory part.

I did when I moved to Malta.
Now I'm back, I transferred the mandatory bit that was left to my new 2nd pillar

I used Liberty who are actually in Schwyz.
Also for my 3rd pillar because exit taxes were a lot lower then Zurich
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Old 11.08.2017, 17:39
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Re: Pillar 2 vesting account recommendations?

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You can't cash it all in. Only the non-mandatory part.

I did when I moved to Malta.
Now I'm back, I transferred the mandatory bit that was left to my new 2nd pillar

I used Liberty who are actually in Schwyz.
Also for my 3rd pillar because exit taxes were a lot lower then Zurich
I cashed 100% when I moved to Malta, you believed what you were told, Malta does not require pension insurance.....
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Old 11.08.2017, 17:49
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Re: Pillar 2 vesting account recommendations?

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I cashed 100% when I moved to Malta, you believed what you were told, Malta does not require pension insurance.....
OP is moving to the UK, so my experience does apply.
They are not moving to Malta.

I'm back here now anyway, no real harm done especially given the changes in the CHF-EUR exchange rate between my leaving Switzerland and coming back.
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Old 11.08.2017, 17:56
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Re: Pillar 2 vesting account recommendations?

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OP is moving to the UK, so my experience does apply.
They are not moving to Malta.

I'm back here now anyway, no real harm done especially given the changes in the CHF-EUR exchange rate between my leaving Switzerland and coming back.
Due to new mandatory pension rules in the UK it's more difficult, it depends on the OP's status at the time of applying.
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Old 11.08.2017, 17:59
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Re: Pillar 2 vesting account recommendations?

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Due to new mandatory pension rules in the UK it's more difficult, it depends on the OP's status at the time of applying.
If I had to go back to the UK (which would be a gunpoint TBH) I'd consider leaving my cash here.
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Old 11.08.2017, 18:10
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Re: Pillar 2 vesting account recommendations?

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If I had to go back to the UK (which would be a gunpoint TBH) I'd consider leaving my cash here.
Why, Swiss pension returns are very poor?
Nothing to stop you holding CHF assets if you really believe thats a good thing.
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Old 12.08.2017, 18:15
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Re: Pillar 2 vesting account recommendations?

Swiss Life offers for the 2nd pillar savings a deposit where the money is invested on capital markets. They generate typically 3.5% returns, net return something like 2.5, I don't remember the annual fees by hard. This deposit has in the beginning fees that make it uninteresting for short term but if one keeps the money in long term, lets say 6-7 years or more, this option is interesting. Typical investors for this deposit are 55+ year old who want to deposit their 2nd pillar money until they are 65. If one is already closer to 60 than 55 it's not recommended.
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Old 12.08.2017, 20:10
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Re: Pillar 2 vesting account recommendations?

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Swiss Life offers for the 2nd pillar savings a deposit where the money is invested on capital markets. They generate typically 3.5% returns, net return something like 2.5
Whereas stock market return averages 5-10% p.a! Better to cash everything out and invest yourself in a low cost index fund

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if one keeps the money in long term, lets say 6-7 years or more, this option is interesting
Their underperformance and high fees will especially hurt you In the long term, not enough to be compensated by tax savings, so this makes this option rather uninteresting.

Or do they guarantee that you'll get at least the initial deposit out even if stock market crashes? My company's pension fund cited some obscure soon to be changed law to this effect as an excuse for why they have only 3% in stocks and the rest largely in bonds, largely negative yielding bonds. But even then just buying some puts is likely cheaper in current low vol market

Last edited by ivank; 12.08.2017 at 20:35.
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Old 12.08.2017, 21:07
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Re: Pillar 2 vesting account recommendations?

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Swiss Life offers for the 2nd pillar savings a deposit where the money is invested on capital markets. They generate typically 3.5% returns, net return something like 2.5, I don't remember the annual fees by hard. This deposit has in the beginning fees that make it uninteresting for short term but if one keeps the money in long term, lets say 6-7 years or more, this option is interesting. Typical investors for this deposit are 55+ year old who want to deposit their 2nd pillar money until they are 65. If one is already closer to 60 than 55 it's not recommended.
Swiss Life has not produced 3.5% compound for 10 years, I got roughly 0% from 2007-2014.
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Old 12.08.2017, 21:10
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Re: Pillar 2 vesting account recommendations?

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Swiss Life has not produced 3.5% compound for 10 years, I got roughly 0% from 2007-2014.
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Or do they guarantee that you'll get at least the initial deposit out even if stock market crashes?
not on a frozen pension
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Old 12.08.2017, 21:35
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Re: Pillar 2 vesting account recommendations?

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Why, Swiss pension returns are very poor?
Nothing to stop you holding CHF assets if you really believe thats a good thing.
Has anything you've said helped the OP yet?

- You got all your pot back going to Malta: not relevant
- UK pension rules changed: no details
- Don't leave money in CH, poor returns: OP has to leave a portion here

OP requires a 2nd pillar solution.

Offer one that is not Liberty, or tell us how they can get all of it back ( offering a Malta address for example?)
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Old 12.08.2017, 21:38
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Re: Pillar 2 vesting account recommendations?

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Whereas stock market return averages 5-10% p.a! Better to cash everything out and invest yourself in a low cost index fund
How do they cash everything out moving to the UK?
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Old 12.08.2017, 21:39
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Re: Pillar 2 vesting account recommendations?

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Has anything you've said helped the OP yet?

- You got all your pot back going to Malta: not relevant
- UK pension rules changed: no details
- Don't leave money in CH, poor returns: OP has to leave a portion here

OP requires a 2nd pillar solution.

Offer one that is not Liberty, or tell us how they can get all of it back ( offering a Malta address for example?)
OP has specifically asked about low withholding tax, he may well be able to cash out 100%.

He has not asked about long term investment in a CH pension wrapper which you believe to be his requirement as you believed it was YOUR only option, which was incorrect at the time.......
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How do they cash everything out moving to the UK?
By moving to the UK & not be subject to compulsory insurance....... not impossible either.
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Old 13.08.2017, 21:56
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Re: Pillar 2 vesting account recommendations?

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OP has specifically asked about low withholding tax, he may well be able to cash out 100%.

He has not asked about long term investment in a CH pension wrapper which you believe to be his requirement as you believed it was YOUR only option, which was incorrect at the time.......


By moving to the UK & not be subject to compulsory insurance....... not impossible either.
@OP:go to Liberty and stash it there, like the first reply

You won't get any other useful answers.
But you *do* know I did it wrong apparently... very useful

And there are mysterious ways to bypass the normal rules... but no-one will tell you
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Old 14.08.2017, 10:25
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Re: Pillar 2 vesting account recommendations?

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And there are mysterious ways to bypass the normal rules... but no-one will tell you
Nothing mysterious just employment status & salary level.
So a contractor with a Ltd company taking the majority of their pay by dividends would qualify.
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Old 14.08.2017, 11:30
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Re: Pillar 2 vesting account recommendations?

WIR bank had some of the best interest rates for vested accounts when I was between jobs about a year a go.

I also think CIC Suisse are good.

However my experience is using them as short term holding accounts, for long term maybe some others are better
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Old 14.08.2017, 12:43
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Re: Pillar 2 vesting account recommendations?

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Nothing mysterious just employment status & salary level.
So a contractor with a Ltd company taking the majority of their pay by dividends would qualify.
Not likely to happen in practice
- Salary less than the BVG minimum, took the rest by dividends
- Went to a limited company immediately on arrival (or very young)
- Staying the course to Switzerland to amortise the cost of setting up the company
- Avoided scrutiny by the tax authorities

Of course, OP also does have a pillar 2 and is leaving Switzerland so this option is not relevant.
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