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Old 01.10.2017, 12:40
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Any deductions for expat retirees in NE or VD?

I have read a lot about tax deductions while working but I cannot find anything about tax deductions for retirees. Do they exist in NE and VD?

In France there is a general tax deduction of 10% for over 65 years old. Anything in Switzerland?

PS We will renting so no property to improve.
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Old 01.10.2017, 13:06
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Re: Any deductions for expat retirees in NE or VD?

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I have read a lot about tax deductions while working but I cannot find anything about tax deductions for retirees. Do they exist in NE and VD?

In France there is a general tax deduction of 10% for over 65 years old. Anything in Switzerland?

PS We will renting so no property to improve.
None that I know of,

http://www.estv2.admin.ch/d/dienstle...uerrechner.htm
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Old 01.10.2017, 13:08
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Re: Any deductions for expat retirees in NE or VD?

Thanks, is this available in French?
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Old 01.10.2017, 13:13
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Re: Any deductions for expat retirees in NE or VD?

http://www.estv2.admin.ch/f/dienstle...uerrechner.htm


just Change the "d" in the link to a "f" and you will get the French Version (works most times with offical admin.ch sites).
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Old 01.10.2017, 13:18
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Re: Any deductions for expat retirees in NE or VD?

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http://www.estv2.admin.ch/f/dienstle...uerrechner.htm


just Change the "d" in the link to a "f" and you will get the French Version (works most times with offical admin.ch sites).
you beat me to it
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Old 01.10.2017, 13:29
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Re: Any deductions for expat retirees in NE or VD?

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http://www.estv2.admin.ch/f/dienstle...uerrechner.htm


just Change the "d" in the link to a "f" and you will get the French Version (works most times with offical admin.ch sites).
Thanks! This way I also found the English version:
http://www.estv2.admin.ch/e/dienstle...uerrechner.htm
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Old 01.10.2017, 16:17
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Re: Any deductions for expat retirees in NE or VD?

I had played with this but unfortunately this won't help retirees. I am getting deductions for work expenses! It is definitely geared to working people.

I have started contacting accountants recommended on these forums. Thanks for your recommendations, I think now that this is the only way to find out how much tax we would pay in Switzerland, NE or VD.
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Old 01.10.2017, 21:53
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Re: Any deductions for expat retirees in NE or VD?

In canton Zurich there are fewer deductions (no commuting, work expenses etc) for retirees and thus MORE tax as a pensioner!!
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Old 01.10.2017, 22:11
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Re: Any deductions for expat retirees in NE or VD?

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I had played with this but unfortunately this won't help retirees. I am getting deductions for work expenses! It is definitely geared to working people.
.
You seem to think that a retiree will enjoy being taxed as some special, lower rate. This may not be the case at all. AbFab's post is true since income is income, and pensions are taxed at their full value, like any other income.

If your pension is less than your working earnings were, then there'll be less income on which to pay tax, i.e. you'll be further down the tax scale. However, this may be offset by having zero "deductions for work expenses". There are many articles about the fact that pensioners can even end up paying more income tax, such as this (in German) https://www.vermoegenszentrum.ch/rat...ionierung.html

Even so, like everything else, you need to know the specific cantonal and municipal rules. You can simply approach the relevant tax office, and they are likely to supply you with a tax estimate - if their tables are not online for free use.

EDIT: Sorry, when I posted as above, I had not yet seen your other, related thread:
https://www.englishforum.ch/finance-...-pensions.html
In that case, perhaps there are, indeed, some sort of exemptions, in terms of the bilateral agreement.

Last edited by doropfiz; 01.10.2017 at 22:23. Reason: saw OP's other thread
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Old 02.10.2017, 07:18
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Re: Any deductions for expat retirees in NE or VD?

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You seem to think that a retiree will enjoy being taxed as some special, lower rate. This may not be the case at all. AbFab's post is true since income is income, and pensions are taxed at their full value, like any other income.

If your pension is less than your working earnings were, then there'll be less income on which to pay tax, i.e. you'll be further down the tax scale. However, this may be offset by having zero "deductions for work expenses". There are many articles about the fact that pensioners can even end up paying more income tax, such as this (in German) https://www.vermoegenszentrum.ch/rat...ionierung.html

Even so, like everything else, you need to know the specific cantonal and municipal rules. You can simply approach the relevant tax office, and they are likely to supply you with a tax estimate - if their tables are not online for free use.

EDIT: Sorry, when I posted as above, I had not yet seen your other, related thread:
https://www.englishforum.ch/finance-...-pensions.html
In that case, perhaps there are, indeed, some sort of exemptions, in terms of the bilateral agreement.
Thanks, unfortunately no retired Aussies on these forums so no answer so far.

Using assumptions that most deductions don't apply and the online calculators, I got a tax rate of 24% on our total income in Vaud (Neuchatel is even more expensive). That's what we paid in Australia when we worked!! (we paid <5% in retirement) So, to our big surprise, Switzerland is a high tax country for reasonably well off retirees which makes it not so attractive to move to Switzerland for retirement
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Old 02.10.2017, 08:39
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Re: Any deductions for expat retirees in NE or VD?

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Thanks, unfortunately no retired Aussies on these forums so no answer so far.

Using assumptions that most deductions don't apply and the online calculators, I got a tax rate of 24% on our total income in Vaud (Neuchatel is even more expensive). That's what we paid in Australia when we worked!! (we paid <5% in retirement) So, to our big surprise, Switzerland is a high tax country for reasonably well off retirees which makes it not so attractive to move to Switzerland for retirement
Yes. Neuchâtel is more expensive. You'll have to look for a low tax canton (if your Australian retirement is taxed).

Switzerland is low tax on the German side or if you have a boat load of money. Try Zug! Your rate will probably be 13%.

Or Portugal. It's tax free for the first 5 years.
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Old 02.10.2017, 09:11
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Re: Any deductions for expat retirees in NE or VD?

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Yes. Neuchâtel is more expensive. You'll have to look for a low tax canton (if your Australian retirement is taxed).

Switzerland is low tax on the German side or if you have a boat load of money. Try Zug! Your rate will probably be 13%.

Or Portugal. It's tax free for the first 5 years.
Unfortunately, they want Vaud or Neuchatel for shopping and because they speak French so moving to a German speaking canton is likely out of the picture.

mnet, I wouldn't limit yourself to those 2 cantons. Getting into France from here in Fribourg canton takes us 40 minutes and the canton is bi-lingual so your French is fine here. Also there are other Grand Frais stores - I found 3 over the Jura mountains border at Danjoutin, Voujeaucourt and Ecole-Valentin which you could possibly shop at. Also look at Jura canton which is French speaking and borders France for those shops. Plus I don't know what those stores specialise in, but there are plenty of places here selling fresh produce including many street markets so you may not even need to go into France to shop.
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Old 02.10.2017, 11:18
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Re: Any deductions for expat retirees in NE or VD?

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Unfortunately, they want Vaud or Neuchatel for shopping and because they speak French so moving to a German speaking canton is likely out of the picture.

mnet, I wouldn't limit yourself to those 2 cantons. Getting into France from here in Fribourg canton takes us 40 minutes and the canton is bi-lingual so your French is fine here. Also there are other Grand Frais stores - I found 3 over the Jura mountains border at Danjoutin, Voujeaucourt and Ecole-Valentin which you could possibly shop at. Also look at Jura canton which is French speaking and borders France for those shops. Plus I don't know what those stores specialise in, but there are plenty of places here selling fresh produce including many street markets so you may not even need to go into France to shop.
Yes, exactly. Learning yet another language in retirement could be rather challenging

Grand Frais is much better than any market in France, we get all our food from there - fruit, vegetables, seafood, cheeses; all fantastically fresh and big variety. I can highly recommend it to those who are within driving distance to go and discover it

Thanks for all answers. I'd better work out now what we could afford after tax is taken away
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Old 02.10.2017, 12:08
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Re: Any deductions for expat retirees in NE or VD?

Just remember that you're limited on meat and meat products to 1kg per person when shopping in France and bringing it back over the border. Also some other stuff is limited as well.

https://www.ezv.admin.ch/ezv/en/home...d-tobacco.html
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Old 02.10.2017, 14:05
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Re: Any deductions for expat retirees in NE or VD?

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Just remember that you're limited on meat and meat products to 1kg per person when shopping in France and bringing it back over the border. Also some other stuff is limited as well.

https://www.ezv.admin.ch/ezv/en/home...d-tobacco.html
Thanks for the link, we are not vegetarian but we don't eat meet and eat very little fat (diet maniacs! )
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Old 02.10.2017, 16:44
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Re: Any deductions for expat retirees in NE or VD?

Hopefully we will meet face to face soon for a good chat and exchange.

Do be careful re low tax - you'll find that, generally, low tax goes with high everything else- including rents. We live in a high tax area- but rents are very low- and we are so close to France that our local shops are in France ... Pontarlier has several bio/organic supermarkets, and good markets on Thursday and Saturday am. Depends very much on your own situation. When I look at rental and purchase costs in lower tax areas - it makes my head literally spin!
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Old 02.10.2017, 21:43
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Re: Any deductions for expat retirees in NE or VD?

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Unfortunately, they want Vaud or Neuchatel for shopping and because they speak French so moving to a German speaking canton is likely out of the picture.

mnet, I wouldn't limit yourself to those 2 cantons. Getting into France from here in Fribourg canton takes us 40 minutes and the canton is bi-lingual so your French is fine here. Also there are other Grand Frais stores - I found 3 over the Jura mountains border at Danjoutin, Voujeaucourt and Ecole-Valentin which you could possibly shop at. Also look at Jura canton which is French speaking and borders France for those shops. Plus I don't know what those stores specialise in, but there are plenty of places here selling fresh produce including many street markets so you may not even need to go into France to shop.
Fribourg is also a good option or Valais. Both lower taxes, still not as low as Zug.


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Hopefully we will meet face to face soon for a good chat and exchange.

Do be careful re low tax - you'll find that, generally, low tax goes with high everything else- including rents. We live in a high tax area- but rents are very low- and we are so close to France that our local shops are in France ... Pontarlier has several bio/organic supermarkets, and good markets on Thursday and Saturday am. Depends very much on your own situation. When I look at rental and purchase costs in lower tax areas - it makes my head literally spin!
Not true. In Valais everything is less expensive, rents all insurances, petrol. Electricity is probably also less expensive and you can go shopping easily in France.
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Old 03.10.2017, 10:20
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Re: Any deductions for expat retirees in NE or VD?

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Hopefully we will meet face to face soon for a good chat and exchange.

Do be careful re low tax - you'll find that, generally, low tax goes with high everything else- including rents. We live in a high tax area- but rents are very low- and we are so close to France that our local shops are in France ... Pontarlier has several bio/organic supermarkets, and good markets on Thursday and Saturday am. Depends very much on your own situation. When I look at rental and purchase costs in lower tax areas - it makes my head literally spin!
It's swings and roundabouts really. What you gain in one area you lose in another.
I think if you look at the overall picture it probably evens itself out a lot more.
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