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  #101  
Old 07.08.2018, 00:06
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Re: New low-cost 3a offering: VIAC

I also have 2 more code available, send me a PM
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  #102  
Old 07.08.2018, 17:14
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Re: New low-cost 3a offering: VIAC

I too have 2 codes. PM me .
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  #103  
Old 09.08.2018, 12:33
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Re: New low-cost 3a offering: VIAC

Looking for a referral code please. Thank you!
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  #104  
Old 09.08.2018, 13:24
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Re: New low-cost 3a offering: VIAC

I leave here a code just in case someone needs: DNNo0j
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  #105  
Old 09.08.2018, 22:52
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Re: New low-cost 3a offering: VIAC

Feel free to use this code to get no fee on the first 500 for lifetime:
oajwSP

(unused as of 10.8.2018)
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  #106  
Old 10.08.2018, 09:35
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Re: New low-cost 3a offering: VIAC

Thanks for the advice from this thread, I've now got an acccount set-up and funded.

If anyone wants a referral code then send me a PM.

Cheers,
GS
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  #107  
Old Yesterday, 13:18
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Re: New low-cost 3a offering: VIAC

Hi all

I see quite a lot of EF members are excited about the VIAC 3a offering. I agree its the best 3a offer available. But I am still not convinced 3a is worth it. But how much do you recon the VIAC 3a 100% global would underperform your self-chosen investments (FAANG for some, FS for others)?

I did some calculations, and even with a 8% resp. 11%returns, the difference erodes the tax advantage (30% marginal TR and 5% payout tax) in 11 years.

In a more pessimistic scenario of 5% vs 7%, it takes longer, 16 years.
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  #108  
Old Yesterday, 15:00
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Re: New low-cost 3a offering: VIAC

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I did some calculations, and even with a 8% resp. 11%returns, the difference erodes the tax advantage (30% marginal TR and 5% payout tax) in 11 years.
Sure? For 11 years I get ~6% of additional return needed for the alternative investment. For a only 3% difference I get an investment time of 20 years.
Condition: Either invest X or x*( 100% - marginal tax rate), which leaves you with the same free ammount at end of year.

The longer you invest in pillar 3a the less additional interest an alternative investment needs. This is why you should cash in pillar 3a every 5 years in case you have a self lived in real estate. In five years the alternative would have to perform 15% better!
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  #109  
Old Yesterday, 15:09
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Re: New low-cost 3a offering: VIAC

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Sure? For 11 years I get ~6% of additional return needed for the alternative investment. For a only 3% difference I get an investment time of 20 years.
Condition: Either invest X or x*( 100% - marginal tax rate), which leaves you with the same free ammount at end of year.

The longer you invest in pillar 3a the less additional interest an alternative investment needs. This is why you should cash in pillar 3a every 5 years in case you have a self lived in real estate. In five years the alternative would have to perform 15% better!
I thinks so....

Did you get your numbers with 30% marginal tax rate and 5% Kapitalauszahlungssteuern? Your calc does not seem to add up. 11x6% that is 189% compound.

I tried with both with the compound interst forumala as well as with the excel FV function and I get the same result.
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  #110  
Old Yesterday, 15:21
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Re: New low-cost 3a offering: VIAC

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I thinks so....

Did you get your numbers with 30% marginal tax rate and 5% Kapitalauszahlungssteuern? Your calc does not seem to add up. 11x6% that is 189% compound.

I tried with both with the compound interst forumala as well as with the excel FV function and I get the same result.
I use
for 3a: =FV (8%, Years, 0, 100)* (95%)
for stocks =FV(11%, Years, 0, 70)
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  #111  
Old Yesterday, 15:34
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Re: New low-cost 3a offering: VIAC

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Hi all

I see quite a lot of EF members are excited about the VIAC 3a offering. I agree its the best 3a offer available. But I am still not convinced 3a is worth it. But how much do you recon the VIAC 3a 100% global would underperform your self-chosen investments (FAANG for some, FS for others)?

I did some calculations, and even with a 8% resp. 11%returns, the difference erodes the tax advantage (30% marginal TR and 5% payout tax) in 11 years.

In a more pessimistic scenario of 5% vs 7%, it takes longer, 16 years.
i think the use cases are:

1. if you already have cash trapped in 3a and so looking for the best 3a to use; and
2. if you plan to withdraw cash every 5 years (e.g. to pay down mortgage)
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  #112  
Old Yesterday, 15:50
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Re: New low-cost 3a offering: VIAC

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I use
for 3a: =FV (8%, Years, 0, 100)* (95%)
for stocks =FV(11%, Years, 0, 70)
O.k. You use a single payment, I use recurring which is
=FV(11%, Years, -70, 0, [0 1]) last value depending if you pay in at beginning or end of year.
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  #113  
Old Yesterday, 16:03
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Re: New low-cost 3a offering: VIAC

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O.k. You use a single payment, I use recurring which is
=FV(11%, Years, -70, 0, [0 1]) last value depending if you pay in at beginning or end of year.
I see...

So to compensate for the tax savings in the last few years before withdrawal, the "average" goes up. In that case, I rather use the formula with 1 payment to determine the number of years before planned withdrawal to start paying into 3a.

Conclusion: remind me when I am about 50
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  #114  
Old Yesterday, 16:04
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Re: New low-cost 3a offering: VIAC

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Hi all

I see quite a lot of EF members are excited about the VIAC 3a offering. I agree its the best 3a offer available. But I am still not convinced 3a is worth it. But how much do you recon the VIAC 3a 100% global would underperform your self-chosen investments (FAANG for some, FS for others)?

I did some calculations, and even with a 8% resp. 11%returns, the difference erodes the tax advantage (30% marginal TR and 5% payout tax) in 11 years.

In a more pessimistic scenario of 5% vs 7%, it takes longer, 16 years.
Most people doing this calculation are doing it wrong because they don't take into account that you will have more money to invest outside of 3a due to the tax-saving. For me this means 1500 more each year.
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  #115  
Old Yesterday, 16:06
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Re: New low-cost 3a offering: VIAC

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Most people doing this calculation are doing it wrong because they don't take into account that you will have more money to invest outside of 3a due to the tax-saving. For me this means 1500 more each year.


You mean less, right?
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  #116  
Old Yesterday, 16:11
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Re: New low-cost 3a offering: VIAC

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You mean less, right?
1500 more to invest outside of 3a
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  #117  
Old Yesterday, 16:12
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Re: New low-cost 3a offering: VIAC

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Hi all

I see quite a lot of EF members are excited about the VIAC 3a offering. I agree its the best 3a offer available. But I am still not convinced 3a is worth it. But how much do you recon the VIAC 3a 100% global would underperform your self-chosen investments (FAANG for some, FS for others)?

I did some calculations, and even with a 8% resp. 11%returns, the difference erodes the tax advantage (30% marginal TR and 5% payout tax) in 11 years.

In a more pessimistic scenario of 5% vs 7%, it takes longer, 16 years.

I think you may be comparing apples and oranges. For similar investments the expected returns should be similar (bar the higher management fees).

Assumptions:
- Tax savings (payment): 33%
- Tax (withdrawal): 4.50%
- Average annual return: 5%

The alternative would offer a 7% avg. annual return (that's the average long term S&P 500 return, I believe)


Result:
- A single payment would be better invested in VIAC for up to 18 years (or 13, if using a 10% rounding)
- Payment every year (max allowed amount): VIAC is better for up to 28 years (or 21, if using a 10% rounding)
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  #118  
Old Yesterday, 16:15
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Re: New low-cost 3a offering: VIAC

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I see...


Conclusion: remind me when I am about 50
Unless you planning for an early retirement
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  #119  
Old Yesterday, 16:15
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Re: New low-cost 3a offering: VIAC

To make it more obvious what I mean:

With CHF 6768 you can either
- invest 6768 outside of 3a OR
- invest 6768 inside 3a and 1500 (tax saving) outside of 3a
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  #120  
Old Yesterday, 16:19
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Re: New low-cost 3a offering: VIAC

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Unless you planning for an early retirement
...still can't cash in 3a earlier
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