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  #241  
Old 07.12.2020, 17:43
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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Obviously. I would have thought you'd know that, since you embrace trading in equities.


Yes, the bigger picture. I see you're still kicking yourself for not buying Bitcoin five years ago. Or even 18 months ago.

Do you approach every investment with such a short-term view? I guess that explains why you don't own your own island.
An investment in the greater fool theory is not a long term view. It will end in tears. The only question is whose and when.

The absolute best case scenario is that it becomes a new gold - ie peters along going nowhere in particular.

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 07.12.2020 at 17:58.
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  #242  
Old 23.12.2020, 21:43
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

Hi

Is there actually a safe broker in Switzerland to trade and hold Bitcoin using CHF with low commission fees ?

thanks and kind regards

Sahasrara
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  #243  
Old 24.12.2020, 04:46
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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An investment in the greater fool theory is not a long term view. It will end in tears. The only question is whose and when.

The absolute best case scenario is that it becomes a new gold - ie peters along going nowhere in particular.
The "absolute best", eh? I disagree. Looks like millions of other people, and a lot of very large institutions, do too. Who knew that institutional investors were all "greater fools"? They're probably the same fools who bought Tesla at $80 a year ago and had to settle for 800% since then. Those fools who bought BTC at the same time have only achieved 300%.

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Couple of months & no comments, $4990 after another 11% fall today. 75% fall from peak less than a year ago.
And here we are today a couple of years later at $23,000. What a waste of time that Bitcoin is.

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By the same thinking they never made any money on the run up unless they sold.

Bigger picture
Yep, as I said: the (much) bigger picture.

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I for one am just totally shocked :



Yeah nice...…..

They lost money though.

They must be scrambling to buy now though?! The same thing but a 75% discount...it must be a great buy!!! oh wait...
Well, at least somebody here recognises a great buy when they see one... Oh wait...


It's funny how people ridicule what they don't understand, even wishing failure on those things they can't comprehend. It's a bizarre facet of human psychology.
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  #244  
Old 24.12.2020, 12:04
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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The "absolute best", eh? I disagree. Looks like millions of other people, and a lot of very large institutions, do too. Who knew that institutional investors were all "greater fools"? They're probably the same fools who bought Tesla at $80 a year ago and had to settle for 800% since then. Those fools who bought BTC at the same time have only achieved 300%.


And here we are today a couple of years later at $23,000. What a waste of time that Bitcoin is.


Yep, as I said: the (much) bigger picture.


Well, at least somebody here recognises a great buy when they see one... Oh wait...


It's funny how people ridicule what they don't understand, even wishing failure on those things they can't comprehend. It's a bizarre facet of human psychology.
Quoting price increases as an argument that Bitcoin is not a greater fool theory investment is not really valid. An inherent feature of "greater fool theory" investments is that they have very rapid price increases.

Explain to me Bitcoin's worth, not its price. Lots of things have prices that don't justify their worth (17th century tulips being the typical example). As bitcoin generates no income, and will never generate any income my view is that it has no worth whatsoever. What explains its previous peak then crash? As far as I can see there are no fundamentals that explain this. Indeed, there appear to no fundamentals whatsoever. When will you realise your profit? How can you justify the selection of the sale price absent any fundamentals?

Tesla is speculative, but at least generates income and has the potential to generate much more than at present. In my view its a mixture of genuine potential and some greater fool investors.

(BTW I have had a decent % of my wealth (indirectly) in TSLA before 2020 through Baillie Gifford funds).

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 24.12.2020 at 13:24.
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  #245  
Old 24.12.2020, 13:27
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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Quoting price increases as an argument that Bitcoin is not a greater fool theory investment is not really valid. An inherent feature of "greater fool theory" investments is that they have very rapid price increases.

Explain to me Bitcoin's worth, not its price. Lots of things have prices that don't justify their worth (17th century tulips being the typical example). As bitcoin generates no income, and will never generate any income my view is that it has no worth whatsoever. What explains its previous peak then crash? As far as I can see there are no fundamentals that explain this. Indeed, there appear to no fundamentals whatsoever.

Tesla is speculative, but at least generates income and has the potential to generate much more than at present. In my view its a mixture of genuine potential and some greater fool investors.

(BTW I have had a decent % of my wealth (indirectly) in TSLA before 2020 through Baillie Gifford funds).
It's funny how bitcoin keeps popping up, even though many think it should have died years ago.

We had a lot of discussion in the endless 'Bitcoin paper presented to Swiss parliament' thread over six years ago. Here's a young me (I haven't aged a bit...) giving a stab at the value thing:

https://www.englishforum.ch/2253698-post178.html
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  #246  
Old 24.12.2020, 13:34
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

I genuinely think that you do not understand Bitcoin, nor the blockchain in general. It would take me far too long to explain both to you. It would be more efficient to do your own research.

Bitcoin generates income as a transactional tool. It also has inherent value for those paying by Bitcoin, as they are not regulated or restricted in any way. And the blockchain is the most accurate and efficient method of ensuring fidelity in transactions, plus a whole lot more.

On top of all that, Bitcoin is a store of value. Can you tell me what the worth of gold is, outside of some pretty small industrial applications?

I didn't note the price increase of Bitcoin as evidence that it's not a "greater fool" investment—it was just to point out what you're missing out on.

I am certain that Bitcoin will continue to go through volatile cycles with deep troughs and extreme peaks, until enough investors finally understand its value. These represent great buying and profit-taking opportunities, till then.
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  #247  
Old 24.12.2020, 13:36
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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It's funny how bitcoin keeps popping up, even though many think it should have died years ago.
Indeed. Most analysts said the same about Tesla, half a decade ago. And yet both are still around, and doing extremely well.
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  #248  
Old 25.12.2020, 09:50
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

This year even the big investors are buying bitcoin.
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  #249  
Old 25.12.2020, 10:27
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

I would invest only in thing that I can see and touch.: Gold, Silver, Diamond, Platinum....

CryptoXXX it’s just another hype....
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  #250  
Old 28.12.2020, 19:46
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

Can anyone recommend Cold Storage Wallet or company in Switzerland? My Ledger Nano from 2017 had a software malfunction this weekend - it's the first time I have plugged it in since 2018 but makes me a bit nervous to have a similar incident on another Ledger in the future. Thanks!
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  #251  
Old 28.12.2020, 21:33
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

I assume the "Wallet" is a couple of bytes of data?

Can't you store that on an industrial-grade SD card and keep multiple copies on multiple SD cards?

Or do you need a special smart-card style card for it?
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  #252  
Old 28.12.2020, 23:03
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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Can anyone recommend Cold Storage Wallet or company in Switzerland?
If you want to pay someone to hold your cryptocurrency in CH, then the most obvious option is Bitcoin Suisse Custody. Other would be some major banks, if you have enough assets to make them interested (certainly got offers of crypto custody service from Vontobel, BBVA and some other banks, which were not so keen to be advertised in this area back in 2018).

If you want a better hardware wallet, just get the second one from another band (e.g. Trezor One) and have it as a backup. Double reservation should be OK, not much extra risk in it.

Personally, I never understood those solutions for individual use other then for their cyberpunk looks - they mostly targeted to mitigate improbable risks, unless you are running those wallets for daily business. I have a couple just as gifted novelties, but a good old physically distributed encrypted key works best for a real cold storage.
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  #253  
Old 28.12.2020, 23:14
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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Can't you store that on an industrial-grade SD card and keep multiple copies on multiple SD cards?

You can. Or you can write it on the last page of Swann's Way by Marcel Proust in the Bielefeld public library [chances are, it will never be read to the end]. Most solutions are either inconvenient or have high risks of being compromised. For some hardware wallets seem to be the sweet spot between convenience and risks. SD card is not as convenient as Nano S (can't produce the key as quick, if encrypted properly), or not as secure (can be easily compromised, if unencrypted).
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  #254  
Old 29.12.2020, 22:47
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

Judging by the number of "Bitcoin banks" that have either been robbed or just been looted by the people that ran them, I'm not sure if storing it yourself on an SD card is that bad of an idea.

That is, unless you want to actually use it or trade it. That might be inconvenient.
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  #255  
Old 30.12.2020, 11:32
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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Quoting price increases as an argument that Bitcoin is not a greater fool theory investment is not really valid. An inherent feature of "greater fool theory" investments is that they have very rapid price increases.

Explain to me Bitcoin's worth, not its price. Lots of things have prices that don't justify their worth (17th century tulips being the typical example). As bitcoin generates no income, and will never generate any income my view is that it has no worth whatsoever. What explains its previous peak then crash? As far as I can see there are no fundamentals that explain this. Indeed, there appear to no fundamentals whatsoever. When will you realise your profit? How can you justify the selection of the sale price absent any fundamentals?

Tesla is speculative, but at least generates income and has the potential to generate much more than at present. In my view its a mixture of genuine potential and some greater fool investors.

(BTW I have had a decent % of my wealth (indirectly) in TSLA before 2020 through Baillie Gifford funds).
Bitcoin is one of the purest markets, driven by only supply and demand. As to income, we bought a new car three years back with essentially Bitcoin sale profit and were ecstatic. I retire and we leave CH on the same basis in Feb 21. It's been my best investment by far at many multiples (100's) of the buy price.Traditional markets are doing OK as central banks are literally magicing money out of thin air and then giving it a grandiose title (QE).
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  #256  
Old 11.01.2021, 12:17
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

If I have holdings in Binance, how to declare it (assets?) in tax form?
I couldn't find a page to summarize my holding by yearend on Binance...
thanks
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  #257  
Old 16.01.2021, 10:29
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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Bitcoin is one of the purest markets, driven by only supply and demand. As to income, we bought a new car three years back with essentially Bitcoin sale profit and were ecstatic. I retire and we leave CH on the same basis in Feb 21. It's been my best investment by far at many multiples (100's) of the buy price.Traditional markets are doing OK as central banks are literally magicing money out of thin air and then giving it a grandiose title (QE).
Other altcoins e.g. ETH, LINK, XLM, XRP, BCH, LTC are still relatively cheaper bet to Bitcoin. My account has increased in 3 days by 3k. Of course, it could have been the other way around too. Having said that, I wouldn’t put crazy amounts of money in there but definitely there’s something into it looking forward to 2021 and beyond.

Last edited by jacek; 16.01.2021 at 10:45.
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  #258  
Old 16.01.2021, 10:38
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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If I have holdings in Binance, how to declare it (assets?) in tax form?
I couldn't find a page to summarize my holding by yearend on Binance...
thanks
Don’t you get any tax form end of the year from Binance? Or request one. You need to declare it with your tax return as with any other equity. It’s relatively straightforward process with SQ and all you need is to add positions to the said tax form for the given financial period.
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  #259  
Old 23.01.2021, 10:45
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

I have seen reports that banks (in the UK and other countries) have started disallowing their customers making transactions to or from crypto exchanges.
Has anyone on this forum heard of anything similar in Switzerland? (I have not.)

Now with crypto prices relatively high some cryptoholders may be contemplating selling cryptos and sending funds back to their bank accounts.
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  #260  
Old 23.01.2021, 11:37
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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Bitcoin is one of the purest markets, driven by only supply and demand. As to income, we bought a new car three years back with essentially Bitcoin sale profit and were ecstatic. I retire and we leave CH on the same basis in Feb 21. It's been my best investment by far at many multiples (100's) of the buy price.Traditional markets are doing OK as central banks are literally magicing money out of thin air and then giving it a grandiose title (QE).
but demand/supply is skewed and there is evidence of currently a huge crypto fraud artificially pumping up bitcoin prices.
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