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  #41  
Old 17.01.2018, 14:49
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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Was the bull trap 22 December or today?
you mean a trap set by the bulls or for the bulls?
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  #42  
Old 17.01.2018, 15:04
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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Was the bull trap 22 December or today?
If you just view the 5-minute charts (which is like driving while looking through a Smarties tube[*]), you could be persuaded that the bottom is in. I'd say it's more of an opportunity to take profit on the short and maybe refresh it. (I'll let the neural net decide...)

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you mean a trap set by the bulls or for the bulls?
Bull traps are for trapping bulls.

[*] My secret weapon: http://www.lolipop.ch/de/65064559-sm...hoC2M0QAvD_BwE

Last edited by speakeron; 17.01.2018 at 15:14. Reason: Esprit de l'escalier
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Old 21.01.2018, 12:52
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

Hi all,

I have several questions related to the topic and I hope I can get some clarity from the more experienced ones:
1. How does this activity comply with Swiss taxes? If you have deposits in crypto currencies or even gaining out of these transactions do you mention them in the tax forms? If not mentioning them, is it against the law?

2. As a citizen of an EU country but living and working in Switzerland which details you have provided when registering on coinbase.com, the ones from your country or the Swiss ones?

Many thanks!
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  #44  
Old 21.01.2018, 13:32
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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Hi all,

I have several questions related to the topic and I hope I can get some clarity from the more experienced ones:
1. How does this activity comply with Swiss taxes? If you have deposits in crypto currencies or even gaining out of these transactions do you mention them in the tax forms? If not mentioning them, is it against the law?

2. As a citizen of an EU country but living and working in Switzerland which details you have provided when registering on coinbase.com, the ones from your country or the Swiss ones?

Many thanks!
1. Primary advice: speak with your tax adviser. In general, you should declare your income and your wealth. You may find that income from your crypto sales is tax free depending on how long you've held them.

2. Register as a Swiss resident.
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  #45  
Old 22.01.2018, 09:59
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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I'd say it's more of an opportunity to take profit on the short and maybe refresh it. (I'll let the neural net decide...)
Exactly what I did - sold ones which I was still in profit with and rebalanced (that was days ago, luckily a "real" dip, for the period at least).
But mostly non-strategic, just out of gut feeling.
(what are you using for algo-trading?)
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  #46  
Old 22.01.2018, 11:55
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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Hi all,

I have several questions related to the topic and I hope I can get some clarity from the more experienced ones:
1. How does this activity comply with Swiss taxes? If you have deposits in crypto currencies or even gaining out of these transactions do you mention them in the tax forms? If not mentioning them, is it against the law?

2. As a citizen of an EU country but living and working in Switzerland which details you have provided when registering on coinbase.com, the ones from your country or the Swiss ones?

Many thanks!
1. In Switzerland there should be 2 aspects for a normal person*:
-The actual value of the cryptocurrency you are holding is subject to wealth tax. Which means say, you have equivalent of 10K in BTC, then you're supposed to declare that as part of your wealth. Interestingly, I'm not sure which value should be taken as it can fluctuate so greatly that it can change a lot. My gut feeling is that the conversion reference date must be 31st december 2017 (for tax year 2017)...

Note: too bad if you have losses, they can not be put into the declaration.


-The capital gains from movable private assets, which should be tax exempt in Switzerland.

* as opposed to a professional trader.

2. I provided Swiss documents, I feel it's better from numerous aspects, and anyway it's my official residence.


PS: of course, as others suggested, it might be best you consolidate the above. I'm not a professional tax adviser (otherwise I would charge you thousands for my good advice ). I merely consulted a few sources to write the above.
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  #47  
Old 22.01.2018, 12:06
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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Exactly what I did - sold ones which I was still in profit with and rebalanced (that was days ago, luckily a "real" dip, for the period at least).
But mostly non-strategic, just out of gut feeling.
(what are you using for algo-trading?)
I had bought a lot of currency just minutes before the crash of recent days . My gut feelings are rather not reliable.

I even had set a "Stop" in Gdax, but it failed to execute (I am unsure of what happened to this date). I cancelled it few hours after, anyway it was already too late.

So I can update the "tips" with use "tools" to protect from emotions.

Somehow I did not panic and I did not sold anything as I have a plan. It does not means the plan will work, but at least I am consistent with my intentions.

Anyway, it recovered rather well so far (as I expected). Unfortunately, it seems that governments are introducing lot of uncertainty into the market. As a result, it's somehow strongly influenced in a way which penalised the one who invested and trying to support revolutionary technologies. All because they claim to "protect the citizens from risks and high fluctuations". So they are penalising those who take risks and initiative to protect a bunch of brainless twats who allegedly take too much risks (to a point where governments feel they have to do something). Typical abusers.
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  #48  
Old 22.01.2018, 12:10
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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I even had set a "Stop" in Gdax, but it failed to execute (I am unsure of what happened to this date).
A stop will only work if there is a willing buyer at your price, so unless the price hovers at your sell price nobody will be there to buy.
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  #49  
Old 22.01.2018, 12:17
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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A stop will only work if there is a willing buyer at your price, so unless the price hovers at your sell price nobody will be there to buy.
Thanks!
I did research that and I came to the same "theorical conclusion".

It was more or less like this:
I bought at 197 euros, 10 "units" (LTC). Days later, during a period of high fluctuation, it went above 257 euros. Say 30minutes before it was 240 euros.

So I set a sell "stop" at 255 euros.

Say 10 minutes later it was still higher, around 257 euros.
Approx 1 hour later, the price was less than the stop, around 252 euros.

My stop was not executed, it was still in the "pending orders" or something saying it's not "filled".

Hours later I cancelled it since it was never higher than 255 euros anyway.

Now I am wondering how it works in that context.

Because I only see a stop and market price. If, for example, there's only 1 buyer and 50 sellers (and the amount of buys order is less than the sell orders), I do understand why the "stop order" is not filled.

But then it means a stop is somehow "limited"!!? What if, for example, nobody buys for a period of 1 hour, then the stop is useless!

I'm really beginner, I feel there's a gap in logic or the tool is not very clear.

Last edited by CorsebouTheReturn; 22.01.2018 at 12:19. Reason: adding "sell" stop
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  #50  
Old 22.01.2018, 12:26
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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My gut feelings are rather not reliable.
Your gut feelings are reliable, you just need to do the opposite of what they're telling you. It's basic human psychology to want to buy on large green candles (FOMO) and sell on large red ones ("We're doomed!"). Rothschild knew this hundreds of years ago ("the time to buy is when there's blood in the streets").

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(what are you using for algo-trading?)
It's a self-written witch's brew consisting of a hierachical set of LSTM NNs embedded in a framework of the excellent work of the good Reverend Bayes, some ideas from quantum physics and string theory (quantum theory is, of course, just a generalization of probability theory) and a 'sentiment scraper'.
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  #51  
Old 22.01.2018, 12:29
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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Because I only see a stop and market price. If, for example, there's only 1 buyer and 50 sellers (and the amount of buys order is less than the sell orders), I do understand why the "stop order" is not filled.
if there are 50 sellers and one buyer (lets assume all with the same desired volume) then 1 buyer will match one of the sellers and then there will be 0 buyers and 49 sellers with nobody to sell to.
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  #52  
Old 22.01.2018, 12:51
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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if there are 50 sellers and one buyer (lets assume all with the same desired volume) then 1 buyer will match one of the sellers and then there will be 0 buyers and 49 sellers with nobody to sell to.
Ok, then the "stop" is somehow useless. It's not really offering any protection but rather show your "intentions" to sell (for stop sell).

Which makes me wonder how professionals are doing to "secure" their actions...

Unless maybe in a less fluctuating scenario like normal shares, this situation of no buyer/ lot of sellers is rather rare?
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  #53  
Old 22.01.2018, 13:33
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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Which makes me wonder how professionals are doing to "secure" their actions...

Unless maybe in a less fluctuating scenario like normal shares, this situation of no buyer/ lot of sellers is rather rare?
Traders go Bankrupt precisely because the market becomes more volatile than their model suggested.

Stop loss & bids often never execute, some stop losses are sell at best below a no, however you set a limit of say 99 & it executes at 60 if thats where the bid now is.
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  #54  
Old 22.01.2018, 14:39
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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Ok, then the "stop" is somehow useless. It's not really offering any protection but rather show your "intentions" to sell (for stop sell).

Which makes me wonder how professionals are doing to "secure" their actions...

Unless maybe in a less fluctuating scenario like normal shares, this situation of no buyer/ lot of sellers is rather rare?
It's not that a stop-loss is useless as such, but that it's rather a crude operation. As mentioned, if it works at all you may be looking at a lot of slippage. The stop-loss is one of those things that never really makes you happy, even if it works as designed (especially if your filled order was followed by the inevitable dead-cat-bounce).

Professionals rely on automation at their end rather than at the exchanges and will probably have reduced their position (or increased if it's a short) based on the change or rate of change (first/second derivative) of the price rather than a fixed price point. They will also accept losses within their risk profile because this is a game of consistently hitting 51% rather than a win every time.
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  #55  
Old 22.01.2018, 15:17
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

I bought 2 x LTC last week at 1.18 using Coinbase. The dip finaly ended at 1.10, since then its been way higher than my purchase price :0)


As you can see Im only playing at it, having a bit of fun. From what I read, LTC could hit up to 1000 later this year. I am now addicted to watching my altcoins price!


I still have my coins on my Coinbase wallet, is that safe or should I keep them on a hard wallet?
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  #56  
Old 22.01.2018, 15:34
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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I still have my coins on my Coinbase wallet, is that safe or should I keep them on a hard wallet?
The canonical rule is that if you "don't possess the keys you don't really own the crypto", but I think that has to be balanced against the difficulty the average non-technical person has in securing keys (hardware wallets and paper keys have made this easier but there have also been some embarrassing exploits involving both techniques (of course, a hardware wallet should actually collapse to a paper key for the situation in which your device goes up in flames...)).

Coinbase is, in my opinion, the most reputable company in the cryptocoin space (I'm damning them with faint praise here...); so for your modest balance, it's fine to keep it with them for now.

What I would advise is that you upgrade your account to a GDAX one (usually requires another dance with a photo of some kind of ID). The fees are much, much lower and are actually free if you do a maker trade (i.e. put an offer in the order book and wait for someone to fill it).
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Old 22.01.2018, 17:43
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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The canonical rule is that if you "don't possess the keys you don't really own the crypto", but I think that has to be balanced against the difficulty the average non-technical person has in securing keys (hardware wallets and paper keys have made this easier but there have also been some embarrassing exploits involving both techniques (of course, a hardware wallet should actually collapse to a paper key for the situation in which your device goes up in flames...)).

Coinbase is, in my opinion, the most reputable company in the cryptocoin space (I'm damning them with faint praise here...); so for your modest balance, it's fine to keep it with them for now.

What I would advise is that you upgrade your account to a GDAX one (usually requires another dance with a photo of some kind of ID). The fees are much, much lower and are actually free if you do a maker trade (i.e. put an offer in the order book and wait for someone to fill it).
Something else to consider is that if your currency undergoes a hard fork and the newly minted currency is offered free (as was the case last week with ETH --> ETZ), you will most likely not receive any of the new currency if your altcoins (or Bitcoin) are held in Coinbase -- as you won't have the private keys to your coins.
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Old 23.01.2018, 16:23
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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It's a self-written witch's brew consisting of a hierachical set of LSTM NNs embedded in a framework of the excellent work of the good Reverend Bayes, some ideas from quantum physics and string theory (quantum theory is, of course, just a generalization of probability theory) and a 'sentiment scraper'.
Care to share some more details via private channels?
I am not interested in applying it (EFCH promise ), rather learning about the method (as I come from a CS/AI background).
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  #59  
Old 23.01.2018, 16:52
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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The canonical rule is that if you "don't possess the keys you don't really own the crypto", but I think that has to be balanced against the difficulty the average non-technical person has in securing keys (hardware wallets and paper keys have made this easier but there have also been some embarrassing exploits involving both techniques (of course, a hardware wallet should actually collapse to a paper key for the situation in which your device goes up in flames...)).

Coinbase is, in my opinion, the most reputable company in the cryptocoin space (I'm damning them with faint praise here...); so for your modest balance, it's fine to keep it with them for now.

).
In addition to that, to complement the answer to "still have my coins on my Coinbase wallet, is that safe or should I keep them on a hard wallet?":

It's not only about safety but also availability.

Since your coins are on Coinbase, you are 100% relying on Coinbase to access them. Which means you depend on their authentication servers as well as their other servers which deliver the service.

Now, I had my experience to illustrate the issue. A while ago, it was rather less volatile and ETH hit the peak of around USD. I bought at around 200 USD. Coinbase suffered successive outages, including some on the authentication, and everything was unavailable for at least 20 hours.

During that time, some kind of panic went on and the value dropped a lot in few hours. I tried to sell but Coinbase was out. Emailed them to sell, no answers (in months). When I managed to connect at last, after these hours, I sold at around 220USD, as I feared Coinbase was doing a "Mt Gox".

If I had the coins on a private wallet, I could have send them to another exchange and sell them when I wanted, at a much higher price. That is Availability.

For now, if you have limited amount of coins, it's probably OK to leave on Coinbase, but you are dependant on their platform. That's the catch.

PS: If you want to read the history of outages or problems they have, it's here: https://status.coinbase.com/history
Curiously, I don't see the occurrences where their authentication servers was down (users unable to login).
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Old 23.01.2018, 20:15
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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Care to share some more details via private channels?
I am not interested in applying it (EFCH promise ), rather learning about the method (as I come from a CS/AI background).
I can't really give too many details; we're considering pivoting my perennial startup to base around a generalization of the system to other assets. We got weary of trying to work out exactly what teenage girls want. (Although I'll still do it as a hobby...)

You might want to consider some of the problems in training an NN on historical trade data. E.g. take some n-period slices of the data and predict the price m periods in the future. This approach usually yields quite chaotic results even if the market is doing steady-state psychological breathing. Once a pump group injects a high-frequency component into that, it gets even worse. (The sentiment scraper (which works exactly as it sounds - we're scraping news items, forums and chat rooms (Oh, how I miss the Poloniex trollbox...) and doing NLP on it) helps here).

One way to ameliorate this is to try and find some scale-invariance in the data, i.e. take overlapping time slices at different scales. We have another method which can detect chaotic outcomes even better, but that's definitely 'secret sauce'. (You'll find it somewhere in the annuls of 19th-century mathematics).

There you go. That's pretty much all you need for an MVP...
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