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  #101  
Old 06.02.2018, 18:32
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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Maybe someone can answer this question to me:

What prevents a whale from having two crypto wallets and buying/ seling between them, thereby manipulating prices. I mean if the orders are large enough, a whale could make sure small fish do not have any significant effect.
Nothing and that is exactly what they do via bots (special purpose trading programs)...watch the exchange order books closely and you will see same incrementals,small orders poping up exactly above you buy price so that you increase incrementally too. Just today i saw multiple times 40-50 bitcoins are first sold athen bought back between 7150 and 7140 in a matter of seconds. That us why it is better to hold for long term i think
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  #102  
Old 06.02.2018, 18:58
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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Maybe someone can answer this question to me:

What prevents a whale from having two crypto wallets and buying/ seling between them, thereby manipulating prices. I mean if the orders are large enough, a whale could make sure small fish do not have any significant effect.
Nothing prevents that except for trading fees, and these can be made arbitrarily low for big players (and even zero, especially if the exchange themselves are dong it).

All of the tried-and-tested techniques which would be well-known to any 1930s stock trader and are illegal in regulated markets (spoofing with fake walls, wash trading (what you described), pump-and-dumps, etc) are practiced in the cryptocoin markets. That's why they're considered such shark-infested waters for the naïve trader.

Of course, if you're automated yourself then you can work-around or run with it when others are doing these techniques. Sharks themselves are not immune to being hunted, but it's normally the small fry who end up as fish food.

Last edited by speakeron; 06.02.2018 at 19:12. Reason: Punctuation: full stop must be outside the closing bracket of a parentheses clause if it's part of a sentence.
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  #103  
Old 06.02.2018, 20:58
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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Nothing prevents that except for trading fees, and these can be made arbitrarily low for big players (and even zero, especially if the exchange themselves are dong it).

All of the tried-and-tested techniques which would be well-known to any 1930s stock trader and are illegal in regulated markets (spoofing with fake walls, wash trading (what you described), pump-and-dumps, etc) are practiced in the cryptocoin markets. That's why they're considered such shark-infested waters for the naïve trader.

Of course, if you're automated yourself then you can work-around or run with it when others are doing these techniques. Sharks themselves are not immune to being hunted, but it's normally the small fry who end up as fish food.
Great edit.
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  #104  
Old 09.02.2018, 08:39
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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So Phos, did you buy more Bitcoin on the slump?
Not many media are talking about the last days "surge". They only doing fear monging about the slump. Yet in the last 72 hours there was an increase of approx 33% in numerous cryptocurrencies value.
Take BCH (BitcoinCash) for example, 11.75% in last 7 days, and 26.51% in the past 24h.

What is sure is that numerous people are making money on that, way more than on the alleged "cryptocurrencies scam". Which means the media getting adverts and sponsoring when the masses click on "bitcoin crashing" (which gives a great opportunity for many to mock what they do not understand). Banks who are acting to keep control of financial transactions. Governments defending their supporting institutions...
Let's be clear, the entire system is rigged, but at least on the crypto currency one, it is possible for many to get some rewards (at the cost of a great risk indeed).
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  #105  
Old 09.02.2018, 08:49
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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Not many media are talking about the last days "surge". They only doing fear monging about the slump. Yet in the last 72 hours there was an increase of approx 33% in numerous cryptocurrencies value.
Take BCH (BitcoinCash) for example, 11.75% in last 7 days, and 26.51% in the past 24h.

What is sure is that numerous people are making money on that, way more than on the alleged "cryptocurrencies scam". Which means the media getting adverts and sponsoring when the masses click on "bitcoin crashing" (which gives a great opportunity for many to mock what they do not understand). Banks who are acting to keep control of financial transactions. Governments defending their supporting institutions...
Let's be clear, the entire system is rigged, but at least on the crypto currency one, it is possible for many to get some rewards (at the cost of a great risk indeed).
Surge is a very odd word to use for a gain from -65% to -60%

The only reason it looks like a 20% gain is because the baseline is down so much.

More realistic words would be "rebound" or "correction", whether "dying gasp" also applies is yet to be seen...

Of course if you timed it perfectly you've made some money, for today at least - now do you sell or do you hold?
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  #106  
Old 09.02.2018, 08:52
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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Surge is a very odd word to use for a gain from -65% to -60%

The only reason it looks like a 20% gain is because the baseline is down so much.

More realistic words would be "rebound" or "correction", whether "dying gasp" also applies is yet to be seen...

Of course if you timed it perfectly you've made some money, for today at least - now do you sell or do you hold?
the so called bottom is already way UP in a 3-4 month scale..it is all a matter of perspective.

do you sell or hold? depending on the horizon, i keep buying the dips.day trding is not my cup of tea.
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  #107  
Old 09.02.2018, 09:04
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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the so called bottom is already way UP in a 3-4 month scale..it is all a matter of perspective.

do you sell or hold? depending on the horizon, i keep buying the dips.day trding is not my cup of tea.
LOL - buying the dips.

13 Dec - 16523, dip of about 7%
22 Dec - 13923, dip of about 27%
1 Jan - 13158, dip of about 13%
11 Jan - 14257, dip of about 24%

If you'd invested 1000 CHF on each of these, you'd have lost 2000 CHF at current price.
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  #108  
Old 09.02.2018, 09:10
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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LOL - buying the dips.

13 Dec - 16523, dip of about 7%
22 Dec - 13923, dip of about 27%
1 Jan - 13158, dip of about 13%
11 Jan - 14257, dip of about 24%

If you'd invested 1000 CHF on each of these, you'd have lost 2000 CHF at current price.
those were falling knives, didn't buy there. but i bought at 7600, 6800 but missed the 6000 one.

in 6 months to a year, even the numbers you give will be profitable. again, i am not a day trader
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  #109  
Old 09.02.2018, 09:44
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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Surge is a very odd word to use for a gain from -65% to -60%

The only reason it looks like a 20% gain is because the baseline is down so much.

More realistic words would be "rebound" or "correction", whether "dying gasp" also applies is yet to be seen...

Of course if you timed it perfectly you've made some money, for today at least - now do you sell or do you hold?
First I am not trying to convince you at all cost, but trying to put things on perspective.
I honestly find your answer dishonest, oriented and too focused, aiming to discredit the crypto currencies.
Let's look at facts:-65% to -60%???

Why did you select that particular period? Simply from 1 year ago the Bitcoin has increase by approx 700%. 700 PERCENT! (it was around 1000usd now is 8000usd).
Source: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/

I think you can also agree that one year is not particularly long and that 700% is particularly high. At least compare to the 0.05% interest of the banks .

Also, who told you that it has to be a long term action? Since its extremely volatile, keeping longer is indeed risky. Nobody disagreed on that. The possible reward is also there. So they way I see it in the period we are talking about it was possible to do 20-30% increase, easily.

As for the question, I can honestly answer, I hold. Why? because i'm stuck.
I purchased at a high price and would lose a lot if I sell now. Yes, there is a possibility that I will lose even more or all, but I knew that when I decided to take the risk. And I don't need government to pretend to pay for my own mistakes.
And I'm also believing in what the crypto currencies are bringing/going to bring to our societies, it's significant improvement. I prefer that some of my money goes into that than in the bank's pockets or in questionable businesses. Again, my choice, I took the risk and that's all.
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  #110  
Old 09.02.2018, 09:56
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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First I am not trying to convince you at all cost, but trying to put things on perspective.
I honestly find your answer dishonest, oriented and too focused, aiming to discredit the crypto currencies.
Let's look at facts:-65% to -60%???

Why did you select that particular period? Simply from 1 year ago the Bitcoin has increase by approx 700%. 700 PERCENT! (it was around 1000usd now is 8000usd).
Source: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/

I think you can also agree that one year is not particularly long and that 700% is particularly high. At least compare to the 0.05% interest of the banks .

Also, who told you that it has to be a long term action? Since its extremely volatile, keeping longer is indeed risky. Nobody disagreed on that. The possible reward is also there. So they way I see it in the period we are talking about it was possible to do 20-30% increase, easily.

As for the question, I can honestly answer, I hold. Why? because i'm stuck.
I purchased at a high price and would lose a lot if I sell now. Yes, there is a possibility that I will lose even more or all, but I knew that when I decided to take the risk. And I don't need government to pretend to pay for my own mistakes.
And I'm also believing in what the crypto currencies are bringing/going to bring to our societies, it's significant improvement. I prefer that some of my money goes into that than in the bank's pockets or in questionable businesses. Again, my choice, I took the risk and that's all.
Dishonest - rubbish.

The post I was replying to stated "gain" of 20 to 30% in 72h.

Stating that the loss from peak is ca. 60% is perfectly reasonable in response, and is in context with the previous posts "when will it be down 66%".

OP then replied that they "buy the dips", and I pointed out that within a short timeframe what looks like a dip can easily become a relative high point.

Crypto is so volatile you could come up with pretty much any percentage you like, positive or negative, by chosing your time period - feel free to give some more examples, but please don't accuse people of being "dishonest" for stating simple clear (but interpretable) facts.
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  #111  
Old 09.02.2018, 10:03
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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Not many media are talking about the last days "surge". They only doing fear monging about the slump. Yet in the last 72 hours there was an increase of approx 33% in numerous cryptocurrencies value.
Take BCH (BitcoinCash) for example, 11.75% in last 7 days, and 26.51% in the past 24h.

What is sure is that numerous people are making money on that, way more than on the alleged "cryptocurrencies scam". Which means the media getting adverts and sponsoring when the masses click on "bitcoin crashing" (which gives a great opportunity for many to mock what they do not understand). Banks who are acting to keep control of financial transactions. Governments defending their supporting institutions...
Let's be clear, the entire system is rigged, but at least on the crypto currency one, it is possible for many to get some rewards (at the cost of a great risk indeed).
ALWAYS be suspicious when BCH rises. Always was the case that most of the volume came from Korea but now that foreigners are banned it's coming from OKex - who completely coincidentally announced support for USDT last month.
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  #112  
Old 09.02.2018, 10:14
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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Dishonest - rubbish.
feel free to give some more examples, but please don't accuse people of being "dishonest" for stating simple clear (but interpretable) facts.
I don't do that. If you read again and clearly said I find your answer dishonest. There's a significant difference.

And yes, if you are referring to a specific trend then, as we both know, it is easy to present the percentage increase/decrease we want.

Anyway, I think surge is somehow appropriate if we take the last 72 hours. Maybe there's a better term, we can agree on that. Nonetheless I still do not see the point to refer to a recent low period to justify saying it's dropped of 60%...


Which is why I found the answer somehow dishonest.
Something more honest would have been agreeing that there was a significant increase in past days but referring to a clearly stated event, it still dropping of X percent.
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  #113  
Old 23.02.2018, 16:36
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

A slight word of caution, prior to sending any large sums of money to Coinbase would advise doing some online searching on this subject. Seems a lot of people have sent money for it do disappear in to the abyss in the past month.

I bought the permissable limit on a credit card the week before last whilst putting in a Sepa transfer of quite a few thousands to enable a larger purchase of Bitcoin on the next shakeout. Money left my account but never showed up at Coinbase. Responses were very BOT like to my emails, but relieved the money has just finally bounced back in to my account. So will stick with my little EUR 600 investment and call it a day with Coinbase.

Might try Richdog's suggestion of Swiss based. I don't mind taking a high risk Crypto punt but would prefer to know where my money is at all times and sending it to Coinbase's Lithuania account or wherever not good for the blood pressure
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  #114  
Old 23.02.2018, 17:11
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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A slight word of caution, prior to sending any large sums of money to Coinbase would advise doing some online searching on this subject. Seems a lot of people have sent money for it do disappear in to the abyss in the past month.

I bought the permissable limit on a credit card the week before last whilst putting in a Sepa transfer of quite a few thousands to enable a larger purchase of Bitcoin on the next shakeout. Money left my account but never showed up at Coinbase. Responses were very BOT like to my emails, but relieved the money has just finally bounced back in to my account. So will stick with my little EUR 600 investment and call it a day with Coinbase.

Might try Richdog's suggestion of Swiss based. I don't mind taking a high risk Crypto punt but would prefer to know where my money is at all times and sending it to Coinbase's Lithuania account or wherever not good for the blood pressure
same happened to me but finally I managed to get my account approved. The trick was to have a Euro account in your name.

Also, couple of weeks ago I wanted to buy some LTC with my Credit card on coinbase but got the message that my transactions is not accepted my bank. I didnt confirm but probably my bank is not supporting the cryptos anymore and cosnidering this as a cash withdrawal.
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  #115  
Old 23.02.2018, 17:37
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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As for the question, I can honestly answer, I hold. Why? because i'm stuck.
I purchased at a high price and would lose a lot if I sell now. Yes, there is a possibility that I will lose even more or all, but I knew that when I decided to take the risk. And I don't need government to pretend to pay for my own mistakes.
And I'm also believing in what the crypto currencies are bringing/going to bring to our societies, it's significant improvement. I prefer that some of my money goes into that than in the bank's pockets or in questionable businesses. Again, my choice, I took the risk and that's all.
Nobody except you cares the price you paid, only people who are under water believes it's important. As most people who got on the band wagon last summer will be happy to get their money back, loads of sellers waiting to sell, no frenzy of buyers. Intrinsic value is close to ZERO.
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  #116  
Old 13.03.2018, 16:57
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

So how it is going for the one who started trading crypto currencies?

Any success story? Any horror story?

For me it's not so great I systematically bought at the wrong time, and yes, I tried to follow professional advice and bought when some crypto where losing value. But I'm holding and so far, I managed a few times to sell at no loss when it was going higher again. For example LTC went 180USD, then dropped to 130USD, and back up again around 165USD. I bought at 162USD. I made 3 euros, taking a high risk .

It appears that the "action" is now reserved on latest crypto and that the main ones are more doing a controlled rollercoaster (ETH, LTC, BTC...). XRP appears to be very promising in theory, but in practice it-s stagnating.

Which is not a bad thing in itself, this stability is providing a solid environment for Ripple, something which was lacking for BTC.


My take is that LTC is going to go back up again around 250 USD, and that XRP will do much better but it will take months.*

*I made accurate readings inside a KFC chicken nuggets


I'm looking at interesting projects like Populous (PPT) which is kind of an invoice system where people can loan safely and get rewards, bypassing traditional credit companies (and higher fees). Since I badly invested on ETH, I have nothing to purchase PPT, I am only looking at its evolution.


Any one has something to share, beside "it's dropping dramatically, the boat is sinking, you will all end up in jail" kind of comments?
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  #117  
Old 13.03.2018, 19:06
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

Friend of a friend lost 6 grand on bitcoin.....I am sure there is money to be made if you can time it right.....
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  #118  
Old 13.03.2018, 19:15
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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Friend of a friend lost 6 grand on bitcoin.....I am sure there is money to be made if you can time it right.....
Well BTC (bitcoin) is not doing so great, and yes, if you take the "percent" fall since a few months then there was the possibility to lose quite a lot of the initial investment.

Going backward in time there was also a massive increase in % for the lucky/brave/visionary ones who invested early.

The problem with actual BTC (bitcoin) are that it's already limited due to the high transaction fee, the relative network slowness, the fact that in practice there is some centralisation and that mining is mostly done by farms in cheaper countries.

Numerous other crypto are improving on that, such as the LTC (cheaper and faster transaction fees).

As example, if one bought LTC when it was 130USD a few days ago (when it was all red, showing a big loss in value), it raised back to 170USD within 24h. A very sweet +25% increase for the lucky ones!

Seems that getting the timing right is the key.

From my observation, somehow it does appear that the mathematical/financial things about bull/bear and whatever animals are actually indicating a trend and provide some level of accuracy/truth which can be use to make a decision... Seems that simply observing the increase/decrease is not sufficient!

(professionals must laugh at my beginner's post, they are already enjoying some of my money )
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  #119  
Old 28.03.2018, 18:51
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

Looking to buy bitcoins (or litecoins).
Anyone here interested in selling can contact me via PM.
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  #120  
Old 29.03.2018, 08:44
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Re: Get started trading crypto currencies

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Looking to buy bitcoins (or litecoins).
Anyone here interested in selling can contact me via PM.
Why can't you buy them on a trading platform?
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