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Old 11.01.2018, 14:42
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Very specific tax question(Zug, 1st time tax return, above 120k)

Hi all,

I've been through all threads here and have a fairly good idea but if someone has the experience, why not ask?

Resident in Baar, one of the smallest income tax gemeindes in Zug and have been paying Quensteller for the past 3 years.

2017 was the first time I passed the 120k limit (on monthly and annual basis) so it's the first time I'll need to file a tax return. I'll even go to them and ask them to trigger it so that I won't wait.

Work in Zurich so commute is between 2-3k. Single, no kids.

Questions:
  • Will moving from the cantonal average to Baar's income tax, which is the 2nd lowest in the canton, play such a big role?
  • Does someone know the cantonal average for Zug?
  • I will not have to file returns for any previous years, just from 2017 that the limit was crossed. I am 99% sure but if you think different please let me know.



I guess what I am looking for here is practical experiences from someone in Zug(ideally Baar) who moved from Quensteller to actual tax returns. Of course everyone's circumstances/deductions are different but looking for the difference the actual gemeinde plays vs the normal cantonal rate.

I've been looking into this but my German are awful and Google Translate no help.

https://www.zg.ch/behoerden/finanzdi...-2017/download

If someone can provide their own experience I'd appreciate it greatly.

Last edited by Troublawesome; 11.01.2018 at 15:07.
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Old 11.01.2018, 14:58
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Re: Very specific tax question(Zug, 1st time tax return, above 120k)

Isn´t it 126k CHF?

AFAIK your taxes are based on your residence during the year so moving would only have an effect (in some Kantons) as per the next year. Better check out if that is the case in Zug?
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Old 11.01.2018, 14:59
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Re: Very specific tax question(Zug, 1st time tax return, above 120k)

Clarification: I am not moving anywhere(address same, always Baar), I only mentioned "moving from Quensteller to doing tax returns". Salary is also above 126k so definitely eligible.

https://www.zg.ch/international/engl...ax-at-source-1

Still 120k in Zug according to website.
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Old 11.01.2018, 15:03
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Re: Very specific tax question(Zug, 1st time tax return, above 120k)

Yea, just saw the 120k as well.

Well, if you are above that amount, normally you have no choice but to pay what they tell you. I didn´t think there is a possibility to stay with the rate that you have for income below the 120k?
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Old 11.01.2018, 16:16
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Re: Very specific tax question(Zug, 1st time tax return, above 120k)

There is no "moving from quellensteuer to doing tax returns".

As long as you are on a B permit (or not on a C or Swiss Citizen), you pay "Quellensteuer". The rate depends on how much you make. It has nothing to do with doing a tax return or not doing one.

The tax return needs to be done if you are above 120k OR are not paying taxes at source (not 100% sure about this bit though, Im sure there is some small print there).

Quellensteuer : Your employer taxes money out of your salary to pay taxes on your behalf. IF you're above a certain limit, a tax return is needed. And differences might need adjusting (you pay more or get money back).
Normal taxes : Above doesn't happen. You pay taxes directly.
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Old 11.01.2018, 16:22
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Re: Very specific tax question(Zug, 1st time tax return, above 120k)

Thank you both but I know all that.(I'll continue to pay at source yes but will do a tax return on top to be taxed individually and not in a generic cantonal rate)

The question is, now that I have to ALSO do a tax return and the real tax rate will be applied instead of the average: does someone have experience of having done that in Zug/Baar?

It all comes down to how much the cantonal average is compared to the one in Baar.
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Old 11.01.2018, 16:26
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Re: Very specific tax question(Zug, 1st time tax return, above 120k)

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It all comes down to how much the cantonal average is compared to the one in Baar.
The tax rate for Baar should be listed on the website of the Steuerbehörde Kanton Zug. And the tax rate you are paying now on your payslip
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Old 11.01.2018, 16:32
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Re: Very specific tax question(Zug, 1st time tax return, above 120k)

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Thank you both but I know all that.(I'll continue to pay at source yes but will do a tax return on top to be taxed individually and not in a generic cantonal rate)

The question is, now that I have to ALSO do a tax return and the real tax rate will be applied instead of the average: does someone have experience of having done that in Zug/Baar?

It all comes down to how much the cantonal average is compared to the one in Baar.
As far as I understand, there should be no difference in the tax rate if you do or don't do a tax return. I don't have first hand experience for Zug/Baar though.
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Old 11.01.2018, 16:42
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Re: Very specific tax question(Zug, 1st time tax return, above 120k)

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As far as I understand, there should be no difference in the tax rate if you do or don't do a tax return. I don't have first hand experience for Zug/Baar though.
The rate per se does not change, but your taxable income does since a tax return allows you to claim certain deductions and your bonus will no longer be taxed at the maximum tax rate anymore.
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Old 11.01.2018, 16:42
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Re: Very specific tax question(Zug, 1st time tax return, above 120k)

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Hi all,

I've been through all threads here and have a fairly good idea but if someone has the experience, why not ask?

Resident in Baar, one of the smallest income tax gemeindes in Zug and have been paying Quensteller for the past 3 years.

2017 was the first time I passed the 120k limit (on monthly and annual basis) so it's the first time I'll need to file a tax return. I'll even go to them and ask them to trigger it so that I won't wait.

Work in Zurich so commute is between 2-3k. Single, no kids.

Questions:
  • Will moving from the cantonal average to Baar's income tax, which is the 2nd lowest in the canton, play such a big role?
  • Does someone know the cantonal average for Zug?
  • I will not have to file returns for any previous years, just from 2017 that the limit was crossed. I am 99% sure but if you think different please let me know.



I guess what I am looking for here is practical experiences from someone in Zug(ideally Baar) who moved from Quensteller to actual tax returns. Of course everyone's circumstances/deductions are different but looking for the difference the actual gemeinde plays vs the normal cantonal rate.

I've been looking into this but my German are awful and Google Translate no help.

https://www.zg.ch/behoerden/finanzdi...-2017/download

If someone can provide their own experience I'd appreciate it greatly.
120k+ per month. Congrats
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Old 11.01.2018, 16:43
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Re: Very specific tax question(Zug, 1st time tax return, above 120k)

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The rate per se does not change, but your taxable income does since a tax return allows you to claim certain deductions and your bonus will no longer be taxed at the maximum tax rate anymore.
True. Thanks.
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Old 11.01.2018, 16:49
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Re: Very specific tax question(Zug, 1st time tax return, above 120k)

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As far as I understand, there should be no difference in the tax rate if you do or don't do a tax return. I don't have first hand experience for Zug/Baar though.
Sure there is a difference.

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The tax rate for Baar should be listed on the website of the Steuerbehörde Kanton Zug. And the tax rate you are paying now on your payslip
It does not work like that.

First, tax at source is simply on gross income whereas regular tax is on taxable net income taking in account actual expenses. The applicable tax rate tables are thus completely different.

Second, the tax rate table is a cantonal one. Then there are two (three with church tax) multipliers which have to be applied one for the canton one for the commune, then add all together plus federal tax (taxable net income may be different for this one) and you will have your total tax burden.

The multipliers can be found here (they are in percent): https://www.zg.ch/behoerden/finanzdi...7.pdf/download

The regular tax rate tables here:
https://www.zg.ch/behoerden/finanzdi...ng/steuertarif

The tax at source tables (Quellensteuertariff) here:
https://www.zg.ch/behoerden/finanzdi.../quellensteuer

Actual tax due should be roughly the same. But as we speak about actual deductions vs. flat rate, and communal vs. cantonal average you may have to pay more or less. You only know the outcome once you did fill in the full tax return.

For a ball park figure how much tax might be due you can use the tax calculator on the federal website:
http://www.estv2.admin.ch/e/dienstle...uerrechner.htm
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