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Old 25.01.2018, 19:36
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Does Swiss AHV old age pension qualify as a governmental 457 plan?

Does anyone know if the Swiss AHV old age pension qualifies as a governmental 457 plan? I'm trying to rollover a lump sum payment from the my Swiss old age pension into my US 401-K. The 401-K administrator says I can do it is one of these types below:

[ ] qualified plan under section 401(a) of the IRC (i.e., 401(k), profit sharing, defined benefit plans) [ ] 403(b) tax-sheltered annuity plan
[ ] 403(a) annuity plan
[ ] governmental 457 plan

The AHV office in Geneva isn't being very helpful in assisting with this rollover... no surprise there. But does anyone know if it qualifies?

Thanks in advance for any info on this topic.
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Old 29.01.2018, 09:33
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Re: Does Swiss AHV old age pension qualify as a governmental 457 plan?

Forget it. The pension plans are not compatible. The IRS makes their own rules and everything outside of the USA is a non-qualified plan in IRS eyes.

The 401K administrator has probably never been outside the good ole u s of a, and has no clue about foreign pensions and their non-compatibility with everything in USA.
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Old 29.01.2018, 17:26
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Re: Does Swiss AHV old age pension qualify as a governmental 457 plan?

Really. I was hopeful that it would work. I'll call the IRS today and see what they say. But just out of curiosity, can you explain what experience you had in this regard? Do you know someone who tried to roll a Swiss AHV lump sum payment into their 401K? Or did you have some dealing with US SS regarding Swiss AHV? I'd be glad to hear some more about this. Thanks for your reply!
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Old 29.01.2018, 21:53
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Re: Does Swiss AHV old age pension qualify as a governmental 457 plan?

I believe RunningDeer hit it on the nose with "non-qualified plan"; rollover would be a non-starter since AHV payout will be considered a (taxable) distribution using contributions and accumulated earnings which were not taxed in past years. The IRS will want their share regardless of CH tax status.

Useful link:
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/the-t...-distributions

Also look at IRS publication 575. Unless you are born on or before 1936, lump-sum doesn't apply to you - your Swiss AHV payout would be considered "distribution in full discharge of contract" and taxable for payout less your original AHV contributions.

Good luck!
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Old 30.01.2018, 10:00
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Re: Does Swiss AHV old age pension qualify as a governmental 457 plan?

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Really. I was hopeful that it would work. I'll call the IRS today and see what they say. But just out of curiosity, can you explain what experience you had in this regard? Do you know someone who tried to roll a Swiss AHV lump sum payment into their 401K? Or did you have some dealing with US SS regarding Swiss AHV? I'd be glad to hear some more about this. Thanks for your reply!
Good luck with the call to the IRS ; personally I would not waste my time.

Look, all the things you or your 401k administrator quote are IRS codes for tax advantaged saving vehicles. In order to take advantage a company has to go through a long and costly process of setting it up according to the [insane] IRS tax rules and getting IRS approval that it "qualifies" according to xx of the tax code. No foreign company, not to mention foreign state in their right mind would go through such insane procedures to qualify their foreign pension scheme which is according to their own laws. En plus, the IRS has their own unique or should I say pigheaded way of doing things that makes it impossible for any foreign scheme to even think about it cause the design and function is like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, it just doesn't work.

Personally I have no direct experiences at this time, just years of researching and getting expert advice to avoid such messes when the time may come that I may retire.
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Old 12.02.2018, 14:47
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Re: Does Swiss AHV old age pension qualify as a governmental 457 plan?

Hi, new to this forum and don't know if I am posting this in the right place. I worked in hotels in Switzerland in the 80s. I have been trying to find out if I have any pension accrued from there as I have 8 years missing from my UK pension pot. I have old wage slips that say I paid 85 francs a month in to AHV/AI. Can anyone help? I have communicated with the 2nd Pillar office in Berne that say they have no records for me even though I supplied my Swiss National Insurance Number. What was this money I paid into then?
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Old 12.02.2018, 15:25
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Re: Does Swiss AHV old age pension qualify as a governmental 457 plan?

The Zentralstelle 2. Säule in Bern http://www.verbindungsstelle.ch/xml_.../d353/f365.cfm cannot help you with AHV.

AHV is Pillar 1. It's central body is in Geneva https://www.zas.admin.ch/zas/en/home...ndividuel.html
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Old 12.02.2018, 15:36
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Re: Does Swiss AHV old age pension qualify as a governmental 457 plan?

Thank you. I will try them then. They did not suggest that I look further into this elsewhere. Can you confirm that that AHV/AI payments are for old age pension please?
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Old 12.02.2018, 15:57
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Re: Does Swiss AHV old age pension qualify as a governmental 457 plan?

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Can you confirm that that AHV/AI payments are for old age pension please?
AHV (OASI in English) aka 1. Säule (First pillar) is the Swiss goverment old age pension.

From the Swiss government it self: https://www.ch.ch/en/ahv/ and again from the Swiss goverment it self https://www.zas.admin.ch/zas/en/home.html
Actually, I already linked that second government website.
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Old 12.02.2018, 16:02
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Re: Does Swiss AHV old age pension qualify as a governmental 457 plan?

Thank you
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Old 12.02.2018, 16:09
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Re: Does Swiss AHV old age pension qualify as a governmental 457 plan?

https://www.ahv-iv.ch/en/Leaflets-fo...ons-OASI-DI-IC
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