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-   -   Liberty vested benefit account? (https://www.englishforum.ch/finance-banking-taxation/280978-liberty-vested-benefit-account.html)

OutsideTheBox 14.03.2018 21:00

Liberty vested benefit account?
 
Hello

I'm considering opening a vested benefits account with Liberty.

Just wondered if anyone else had any experience of dealing with them?

It's for my pillar 2 pension fund as I was made redundant and will be relocating back to the UK in a few months and want to use the funds towards a deposit on a property.

You also have to choose who to hold the account with: Sparkasse Schwyz, Credit Suisse or Valiant Bank. Likewise, does anybody have any experience dealing with these institutions?

Thanks

gbn 15.03.2018 09:43

Re: Liberty vested benefit account?
 
I used them when I left the first time for both pillar 2 and pillar 3a.

Mainly becuase the exit tax is lower in canton SZ then in ZH.
The interest they pay is zero or might as well be.

fatmanfilms 15.03.2018 09:57

Re: Liberty vested benefit account?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gbn (Post 2922385)
I used them when I left the first time for both pillar 2 and pillar 3a.

Mainly becuase the exit tax is lower in canton SZ then in ZH.
The interest they pay is zero or might as well be.

I thought from another thread that you did not cash in your pension when you left?

gbn 15.03.2018 10:02

Re: Liberty vested benefit account?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 2922394)
I thought from another thread that you did not cash in your pension when you left?

Partially, down to the minimum to keep in Switerland.

Because interest rates in malta were over 5% for 5 years vs zero point bugger all here... and the CHF vs EUR had dropped in my favour.

fatmanfilms 15.03.2018 10:19

Re: Liberty vested benefit account?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gbn (Post 2922397)
Partially, down to the minimum to keep in Switerland.

Because interest rates in malta were over 5% for 5 years vs zero point bugger all here... and the CHF vs EUR had dropped in my favour.

From the other thread, I thought you thought you were not eligible to withdraw pillar 2 as you had moved to an EU country.

OutsideTheBox 15.03.2018 10:34

Re: Liberty vested benefit account?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gbn (Post 2922385)
. The interest they pay is zero or might as well be.

Do you know whether any vested benefit accounts pay interest? i.e. if I don't buy a property, the money just sits there for the next 25 years earning 0% p.a. interest!:eek:

fatmanfilms 15.03.2018 10:42

Re: Liberty vested benefit account?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OutsideTheBox (Post 2922418)
Do you know whether any vested benefit accounts pay interest? i.e. if I don't buy a property, the money just sits there for the next 25 years earning 0% p.a. interest!:eek:

Invest it in a high equity content fund, long term investment should never be cash in the bank.

gbn 15.03.2018 11:13

Re: Liberty vested benefit account?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 2922407)
From the other thread, I thought you thought you were not eligible to withdraw pillar 2 as you had moved to an EU country.

You can't withdraw all of it.

Just anything over the "mandatory amount" (a.k.a the "extra-mandatory" bit)

https://www.ch.ch/en/withdraw-pension-early/

Quote:

Anyone leaving Switzerland to settle in an EU/EFTA member state, may generally not cash in their pension from the compulsory pension plan as persons in the new country of domicile are insured by law to receive old age, survivors' and invalidity benefits. The mandatory portion of your pension assets must therefore remain in a blocked account (vested benefits account or policy) in Switzerland and can only be paid out when you reach retirement age. The extra-mandatory portion of your pension, however, may be paid out in cash. The mandatory and extra-mandatory portions of your pension are listed on the personal insurance certificate under the heading ‘Retirement provision information’.
The other thread was where you gave some conditions where you can get all of it (that don't apply to the average leaver)

My split was, IIRC about 30% mandatory which is now in my current Swiss employer's scheme (paid 2.25% in 2017!)
The other 70% I took to Malta.

fatmanfilms 15.03.2018 11:19

Re: Liberty vested benefit account?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gbn (Post 2922443)
The other 70% I took to Malta.

Luckily that was before exchange of information as it is taxable in Malta. The DTA is quite complicated on any capital / income payments if they are remitted to Malta.

gbn 15.03.2018 11:37

Re: Liberty vested benefit account?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 2922447)
Luckily that was before exchange of information as it is taxable in Malta. The DTA is quite complicated on any capital / income payments if they are remitted to Malta.

It was after the DTA in 2011, but I think that Malta don't tax pension capital because they don't have a pillar 2. Or particularly care...

poot 15.03.2018 15:04

Re: Liberty vested benefit account?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 2922422)
Invest it in a high equity content fund, long term investment should never be cash in the bank.

Isnt a vested benefits account governed by the same crappy rules as Pillar3 though in terms of what it can be invested in?

fatmanfilms 15.03.2018 15:32

Re: Liberty vested benefit account?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by poot (Post 2922585)
Isnt a vested benefits account governed by the same crappy rules as Pillar3 though in terms of what it can be invested in?

No, you can easily get 60% equities 75% if you look harder,

poot 15.03.2018 23:28

Re: Liberty vested benefit account?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 2922604)
No, you can easily get 60% equities 75% if you look harder,

Any hints?

eyebeebe 15.03.2018 23:54

Re: Liberty vested benefit account?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 2922604)
No, you can easily get 60% equities 75% if you look harder,

Same as Pillar 3 then...

The TER is bloody expensive though (on P3 at least) and the fund choice isnít great.

robBob 16.03.2018 09:51

Re: Liberty vested benefit account?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by poot (Post 2922831)
Any hints?

This might help: https://www.vermoegenszentrum.ch/rat...ftendepot.html

CSA Mixta-BVG Index 45 appears to be the best performer.

poot 16.03.2018 12:26

Re: Liberty vested benefit account?
 
Looks like Liberty are only intersted in some flexible investment choices when you have over 250k in your vested benefits account: http://www.compare-invest.ch/en/2nd-...solutions.html

Otherwise you're stuck with the BVG products which are the same ones as you get offered with Pillar3....however they do have a good range available of the generally less than ideal / not that flexible products

Looking for something of the higher risk category, I would look for one of the highest equity allocations, with lowest TER (fees), as fees would also be a drag over time. eg. the ZAST LOB Growth (Zurich insurance) or Swisscanto Vorsorge Fonds 45

FlavioYB 25.05.2018 17:53

Re: Liberty vested benefit account?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 2922604)
No, you can easily get 60% equities 75% if you look harder,


I am looking at postfinance pension 75 , this seems low cost (1%) and 75% equities. It is the best I could find, any opinions ?

Troublawesome 27.04.2019 21:30

Re: Liberty vested benefit account?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by robBob (Post 2922901)
This might help: https://www.vermoegenszentrum.ch/rat...ftendepot.html

CSA Mixta-BVG Index 45 appears to be the best performer.

I have these with Liberty as well but after reading this one from UBS I wonder what's the catch:


https://www.ubs.com/ch/en/private/pe...s-account.html


Looks like it's 0 fees and you can go up to 95% on equities. Am I missing something?

Jim2007 27.04.2019 21:58

Re: Liberty vested benefit account?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Troublawesome (Post 3064379)
Looks like it's 0 fees and you can go up to 95% on equities. Am I missing something?

The part about not investing in equities unless you have at least a 5 year timespan for a start...

This account is intended to hold your pension funds between jobs... Lets say you become unemployed in January and put the funds into equities. Then in June you find a new job, but the equities are down 15%, you have I think it is a 3 month period in which to transfer the funds to your new employer's fund, what do you do? Sell at a loss and transfer the funds???

Now I know there are tricks to avoid having to move the whole fund to your new employer, the classic being that you pencil in the amount to transfer on the form and the foundation takes the hint. But the problem with that is that you end up being under ensured for disability benefits and a lower pension.

Unless you are in some kind of an unusual situation that you know you have no need to access the funds for a 5 to 7 year period, then it is a gamble.

Troublawesome 28.04.2019 00:35

Re: Liberty vested benefit account?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim2007 (Post 3064385)
The part about not investing in equities unless you have at least a 5 year timespan for a start...

This account is intended to hold your pension funds between jobs... Lets say you become unemployed in January and put the funds into equities. Then in June you find a new job, but the equities are down 15%, you have I think it is a 3 month period in which to transfer the funds to your new employer's fund, what do you do? Sell at a loss and transfer the funds???

Now I know there are tricks to avoid having to move the whole fund to your new employer, the classic being that you pencil in the amount to transfer on the form and the foundation takes the hint. But the problem with that is that you end up being under ensured for disability benefits and a lower pension.

Unless you are in some kind of an unusual situation that you know you have no need to access the funds for a 5 to 7 year period, then it is a gamble.

In my case it's for my pension that I moved from the UK and it's in what used to be a QROPS account. I can't touch this until I'm 55 anyway under the new rules so it fits my objectives. Movin it from Liberty and its 0.52% TER to something free of charge sounds a lot better:)


But I still wonder if anyone has used this UBS account and if it is indeed so cheap?


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