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Old 25.05.2018, 07:33
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Paypal debt collection from germany after me

Hello House,
I have a complaint to make, someone gave me some money out of goodwill and deposited this funds in my paypal. this same person went around to chargeback these funds claiming they did not authorize the transaction. So apparently paypal automatically went ahead and debited me of these funds and asked me to provide proof of my relatioship with this person. I sent text message screenshot of us talking about the sender giving me some money and all. but this was not accepted. So my paypal went into minus and paypal asked me to refund them the money. I already used it and now i am not in talking terms with the sender because of what she did. Then i get an email from debt collectors from germany telling me to pay them the money back and their lawyer fees. which is around €2200 in total and I should do so before the middle of next month. I am a bit confused now and dont know what to do. who can advice me here and what are my chances of. winning the case? what can also be the worst outcome of this case?
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Old 25.05.2018, 07:38
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Re: Paypal debt collection from germany after me

Well debt collectors don't have the right to collect fees, so the most you are up for is the original debt and "reasonable" late payment charges.
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Old 25.05.2018, 07:41
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Re: Paypal debt collection from germany after me

Ignore them
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Hello House,
I have a complaint to make, someone gave me some money out of goodwill and deposited this funds in my paypal. this same person went around to chargeback these funds claiming they did not authorize the transaction. So apparently paypal automatically went ahead and debited me of these funds and asked me to provide proof of my relatioship with this person. I sent text message screenshot of us talking about the sender giving me some money and all. but this was not accepted. So my paypal went into minus and paypal asked me to refund them the money. I already used it and now i am not in talking terms with the sender because of what she did. Then i get an email from debt collectors from germany telling me to pay them the money back and their lawyer fees. which is around €2200 in total and I should do so before the middle of next month. I am a bit confused now and dont know what to do. who can advice me here and what are my chances of. winning the case? what can also be the worst outcome of this case?
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Old 25.05.2018, 07:54
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Re: Paypal debt collection from germany after me

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Ignore them
its easy to say but it may not be a nice case if they really take my case up.
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Old 25.05.2018, 08:35
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Re: Paypal debt collection from germany after me

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Ignore them
Yes, of course, because they'll just give up on the debt, won't they?

OP, if PayPal's terms and conditions allow a payment to be refunded like this, and I assume they do, you don't have a leg to stand on. The very best you could do would be to talk to PayPal offering to repay the original amount and see if they might, as a goodwill gesture, remove the additional charges.

There is no option of not paying this, be clear about that, so if you really haven't got the cash then ask them about some sort of structured payment plan. No guarantee they'll go for it, but if you don't try...

Oh, and while you're talking to them contact the debt agency to make sure they know, and that they'll check back with PayPal before proceeding further.
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Old 25.05.2018, 10:40
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Re: Paypal debt collection from germany after me

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Well debt collectors don't have the right to collect fees, so the most you are up for is the original debt and "reasonable" late payment charges.
Are you talking about German law?

What you say is correct for Switzerland but the collectors are German so presumably that's the applicable law. Presumably.
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Old 25.05.2018, 11:11
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Re: Paypal debt collection from germany after me

Link in german:

https://www.finanztip.de/mahngebuehren/
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Old 25.05.2018, 11:47
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Re: Paypal debt collection from germany after me

How much is the actual debt, and how much are the costs?

Tom
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Old 25.05.2018, 11:53
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Re: Paypal debt collection from germany after me

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Yes, of course, because they'll just give up on the debt, won't they?

OP, if PayPal's terms and conditions allow a payment to be refunded like this, and I assume they do, you don't have a leg to stand on. The very best you could do would be to talk to PayPal offering to repay the original amount and see if they might, as a goodwill gesture, remove the additional charges.

There is no option of not paying this, be clear about that, so if you really haven't got the cash then ask them about some sort of structured payment plan. No guarantee they'll go for it, but if you don't try...

Oh, and while you're talking to them contact the debt agency to make sure they know, and that they'll check back with PayPal before proceeding further.
the money is a gift. there is no law that states that a gift should be returned. only issue is to prove that this is a gift but the OP seems to have documentation about it.

do you have legal insurance?
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Old 25.05.2018, 12:00
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Re: Paypal debt collection from germany after me

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the money is a gift. there is no law that states that a gift should be returned. only issue is to prove that this is a gift but the OP seems to have documentation about it.

do you have legal insurance?
True, but PayPal offers the option of retracting a payment within a certain period. By virtue of your Paypal membership, you are accepting their T&Cs, and if they say a gift can be given back, they probably have a legal case there.
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Old 25.05.2018, 12:26
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Re: Paypal debt collection from germany after me

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There is no option of not paying this, be clear about that, so if you really haven't got the cash then ask them about some sort of structured payment plan. No guarantee they'll go for it, but if you don't try...
Rumor is that PayPal never went to court for some of the more dubious claims.
This is one such claim as legally a gift can normally not be revoked.

Here the options you have:

- If you want to have resolved it quickly pay what they demand.
- If you want to have it resolved but only pay the minimum you have to state what they demand and we can tell you what can be legally claimed and which demands are just bogus and outrageous (assuming the withdraw of the funds was o.k.)
- If you have guts, a thick coat, and do not need Payapl in the future (as you will be banned as a customer forever) you could also outwait the issue and see what happens next. You will have to act as soon as the start the formal pursuit process.

As the demand is from Germany you may get also a second opinion here:
https://www.123recht.net/forum_forum.asp?forum_id=40
For a small fee, even a real lawyer will have a look at it.
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Old 25.05.2018, 12:56
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Re: Paypal debt collection from germany after me

There are two separated issues at the same time here.

1. If legit the girl still owes you the money.
2. You owe Paypal the money.

1. If you want to pursue the girl is up to you, she made a false claim to get the money back, if you can proof that she gave you the money out of free will without any compensation needed you can go after it.

2. As for PayPal, you have two options either proof the transaction was correct, a screen shot of a chat is not solid enough due to how easy these can be produced in whatever form. Chat log files would already be better but still not solid if you have full proof they give the money back, and saying it was a gift and quickly retracting the money already raises their alarm bells so they will judge everything you hand in with special care and demand solid proof.

Currently the debt towards PayPal is legit as can be, their T&C is also very clear about this your dispute with the girl is not their problem. So unless you have better proof you are better of by paying the bill.
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Old 25.05.2018, 13:06
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Re: Paypal debt collection from germany after me

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Rumor is that PayPal never went to court for some of the more dubious claims.
This is one such claim as legally a gift can normally not be revoked.
This is PayPal, sender protection is much heavier than receivers protection due to the numerous fraudes/hacks that are being committed with Paypal accounts.

Senders account sends money, and claims later she never made this transaction herself. Rules of Paypal are clear in these situations and it is the receiver who has to proof that the transaction was legit. OP fails to do so, so the money goes back. In the eyes of Paypal there never was a gift to begin with only an unauthorised payment, and they reimbursed the sender according to policy out of their own pocket, I do not see why they would not pursue in this case.

Common fraude is buying something over PayPal and then claiming the money back due to the package never having arrived, if seller cannot proof the shipment properly the money will be reimbursed and seller has a problem with the buyer and not with PayPal. In this case it is even harder since OP claims it was a gift, so he cannot even proof he performed any compensation like sending a package since none was needed.
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Old 25.05.2018, 15:08
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Re: Paypal debt collection from germany after me

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How much is the actual debt, and how much are the costs?

Tom
the cost was just 200euros the actual "debt" is 1900
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Old 25.05.2018, 16:01
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Re: Paypal debt collection from germany after me

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the cost was just 200euros the actual "debt" is 1900
Can you introduce me to this woman who just gives thousands of eurs for "nothing"?
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Old 25.05.2018, 16:04
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Re: Paypal debt collection from germany after me

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Can you introduce me to this woman who just gives thousands of eurs for "nothing"?
sorry if you dont have anything meaningful to say please back off from this thread. if i needed trolls, i knoe where to get myself entertained.
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Old 25.05.2018, 16:07
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Re: Paypal debt collection from germany after me

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sorry if you dont have anything meaningful to say please back off from this thread. if i needed trolls, i knoe where to get myself entertained.
Come on, this is a public forum, not an expert forum (and by the way, no proper Friday thread so far)
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Old 25.05.2018, 16:26
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Re: Paypal debt collection from germany after me

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sorry if you dont have anything meaningful to say please back off from this thread. if i needed trolls, i knoe where to get myself entertained.
yep, with that attitude you'll be getting loads of help

who pays 'friends' via paypal anyway?? especially that kind of amount????
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Old 25.05.2018, 16:46
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Re: Paypal debt collection from germany after me

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yep, with that attitude you'll be getting loads of help

who pays 'friends' via paypal anyway?? especially that kind of amount????
I loaned a friend 8K once.

It was a very special situation though.
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Old 25.05.2018, 16:53
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Re: Paypal debt collection from germany after me

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I loaned a friend 8K once.

It was a very special situation though.
via paypal? with their fee's ????
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