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Old 20.07.2018, 15:51
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Closest comparable broker to Robinhood for swiss residents

Hello. In the future I'm planning to do more frequent stock trading (also with call and put options) and I'm looking for a similar broker like Robinhood (no/low commissions per trade). Sadly RB isn't available in Switzerland (yet).

Swiss Brokers don't seem suitable at all for daytrading / frequent trading. Is the best option if you're a frequent trader in Switzerland Interactive Brokers? IB seem's to be really decent, no commission and only contract options charge 0.70$ apparently.

The only problem I have is the inactivity fee of 10CHF/month if you don't have a deposit of 100k but I guess thats the trade-off for having almost no trading fees.

Another question: I turned 25 last month, can I still profit from the only needed 3k minimum investment before im 26?

Thanks already in advance.
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Old 20.07.2018, 17:04
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Re: Closest comparable broker to Robinhood for swiss residents

I switched to IB this year because of fees (used Swissquote and UBS previously).

For 10$/month you can basically exchange currency and invest in 3 ETFs or stocks on a monthly basis. (Three fund portfolio, probably not what you intend to do). With other brokers you have higher currency conversion fees, Swiss Stamp Duty Tax and all that other fun stuff.

Degiro is also commonly used and referred, probably a good option if you are a long way from 100k invested.

Now regarding frequent trading; make sure you qualify for a margin account at InteractiveBrokers in the first place - you need way more than 3k for that. AFAIK you need at least 25k for day trading: https://ibkr.info/tag/pattern-day-trader-pdt
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Old 20.07.2018, 17:35
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Re: Closest comparable broker to Robinhood for swiss residents

I'm already using Corner Trader for my long term investments (basically only ETFs). With some spare money, I'm planning to do more "risky" things, athough it doesn't necessarily have to be day trading, I guess swing trading is the correct term in this case (2-6 days).

Thanks for the link. So If I understand correctly; If I have less than 25k Deposit, I'm granted 3 trades a week? That might actually be enough already.
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Old 20.07.2018, 17:46
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Re: Closest comparable broker to Robinhood for swiss residents

I suppose so.

You probably need a "Margin Account" though for your intends and purposes.

It takes 2-3 days for cash to settle, which will prevent you from day-trading if you don't have a Margin Account.

(I only have a cash account, so I don't f*** up )

I sold some shares and wanted to buy something else immediately - didn't work and I had to wait three days until I could reinvest.
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Old 20.07.2018, 17:57
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Re: Closest comparable broker to Robinhood for swiss residents

I use IBKR for investing, not trading.

It's certainly one of the cheapest worldwide for investing. I believe it's also very competitive for trading. I have a friend who uses it for options trading.
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Old 20.07.2018, 21:18
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Re: Closest comparable broker to Robinhood for swiss residents

Hmm I think I need to inform myself more or ask IB directly. Can't you just transfer for example 10K on it, wait until it's transfered and then you just buy the stock with a call option for example?
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Old 21.07.2018, 12:25
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Re: Closest comparable broker to Robinhood for swiss residents

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Hmm I think I need to inform myself more or ask IB directly. Can't you just transfer for example 10K on it, wait until it's transfered and then you just buy the stock with a call option for example?
Do you even know what an option is? You don't buy stock with an option. And will lose all of your cash fast if you start randomly buying options like you perhaps would stock.

If you transfer 10k, then 10k is in your account and you can use it for whatever you want. If for options, then buying (or selling) options uses a certain about of the margin you have available from your 10k.

BTW if you have under 25k, you can do as many trades you want in a week, you are just limited by the number of 'round-trip' eg. opening and closing the trade same day, in a week.

You can open a margin account with tastyworks.com, for (US) option trading it's cheaper than IB and has better software.
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Old 21.07.2018, 13:11
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Re: Closest comparable broker to Robinhood for swiss residents

Thanks for your clarification poot.

I know that you don't buy stocks with options. I guess I'm not really understanding what exaclty a margin is.

Definition:
In options trading, "margin" also refers to the cash or securities required to be deposited by an option writer..."

Doesn't that basically mean,if I deposit 10k, it will just take out margin out of my 10K? Can't I just open a normal broker account on IB (like I did on CornerTrader) and then just buy options on it?

Tastyworks looks good, I will have a closer look into it.

I think I'm making the whole thing more complicated than it really is.
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Old 21.07.2018, 19:23
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Re: Closest comparable broker to Robinhood for swiss residents

Options will potentially make you liable to capital gains taxes, it's considered a strong indicatitor of professional trading. Not to mention that most people lose on them. It's like insurance and just like in insurance it's the actuaries who usually make the money.

Quote:
Doesn't that basically mean,if I deposit 10k, it will just take out margin out of my 10K?
50% Reg T Margin means you can deposit 10k and buy 20k worth of stuff. But they'll start liquidating your positions if SHTF and you LTV goes above 50% and you can't cough up the money overnight asap. It's an unrelated concept to options however
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Old 22.07.2018, 14:05
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Re: Closest comparable broker to Robinhood for swiss residents

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Doesn't that basically mean,if I deposit 10k, it will just take out margin out of my 10K? Can't I just open a normal broker account on IB (like I did on CornerTrader) and then just buy options on it?
If you buy an option you assume no risk beyond the purchase price so the broker won't require additional margin.

However if you naked-sell, aka write, an option the broker will require a certain amount of margin to make sure your losses, if any, are covered by your money rather than the broker's.

Margin requirements can change at any time, and often do; this is called a margin call. In such a case you may have only hours (subject to market conditions, typically) to honor the additional obligation if your account doesn't already. Oherwise the broker has the contractual right, and will probably use it, to liquidate your positions indiscriminately until the margin requirement is met.

Last edited by Urs Max; 22.07.2018 at 18:44. Reason: stricken out the nonsense
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Old 22.07.2018, 14:50
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Re: Closest comparable broker to Robinhood for swiss residents

Thanks for your reply Urs Max!

So I basically don't have to open up a margin account? I'm planning to not use more money than I have available.

Bottom Line:

I'm using CT for my long term investments (ETF) and I wan't to use some side money for Options and short- mid term stock purchases, I guess both IB and tastyworks are nearly identical here and I can't really go wrong with either?
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Old 22.07.2018, 18:53
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Re: Closest comparable broker to Robinhood for swiss residents

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So I basically don't have to open up a margin account? I'm planning to not use more money than I have available.
As long as you don't sell anything you don't own already you probably don't; ask the broker. Just keep in mind that, as has been said, with an ordinary brokerage account the money of a sell won't be available until after the transaction has been been settled, which if memory serves typically takes 2-3 days.

Your mentioning of "daytrading" probably led people astray. Usually this means selling the position on the same day it's been opened, and fairly often buying+selling the same product or stock multiple times in any one day.
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Old 22.07.2018, 19:57
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Re: Closest comparable broker to Robinhood for swiss residents

I think you may need to open a margin account for options trading......but if anyone is really wondering what a margin account is, or is hesistant about opening one, then I’d advise thinking again about option trading.

Tastyworks will give you a margin account with a min deposit of $2.5k btw
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  #14  
Old 22.07.2018, 20:05
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Re: Closest comparable broker to Robinhood for swiss residents

@Urs Max. Exactly, It's not really day trading. And the fact that the money isn't available until the transaction has been settled, doesn't really matter too me, I'm not planning to go for huge amounts so I won't be reliant on this specific money.

To give you an example: Let's say I buy a Call Option for MU 60$, Expiry Date 27th July. MU goes up to 60$ already on 24th July -> I sell the Call Option already before it expires.

Thats basically what I'm planning to do - Not on a daily basis, more like depending on when I see a good opportunity.
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