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Old 30.09.2018, 16:17
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Best 3rd pillar account investment possibilities

Hello,

I am considering opening a new 3rd pillar account (I have never had one until now) and I would be interested to find out from other forum members who have recently opened a such an account regarding the best opportunities for investment of the money in that account. For example, I read that at PostFinance you could buy one of their funds (PostFinance Pension 25, 50 or 75), however the costs of owning such funds (the so-called Total Expense Ratio) are not negligible at all (1% yearly). Does anyone have experience with better opportunities currently on the market of 3rd pillar accounts? Where have you opened lately your 3rd pillar accounts and what was the reason behind your choice?

Thank you!
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  #2  
Old 30.09.2018, 17:13
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Re: Best 3rd pillar account investment possibilities

Have a look around, plenty of information available on what is possible.

Just go to the search function and type in Pillar 3
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Old 30.09.2018, 17:26
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Re: Best 3rd pillar account investment possibilities

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Hello,

I am considering opening a new 3rd pillar account (I have never had one until now) and I would be interested to find out from other forum members who have recently opened a such an account regarding the best opportunities for investment of the money in that account. For example, I read that at PostFinance you could buy one of their funds (PostFinance Pension 25, 50 or 75), however the costs of owning such funds (the so-called Total Expense Ratio) are not negligible at all (1% yearly). Does anyone have experience with better opportunities currently on the market of 3rd pillar accounts? Where have you opened lately your 3rd pillar accounts and what was the reason behind your choice?

Thank you!
I've not yet signed up but VIAC has had some attention on this forum - https://www.englishforum.ch/finance-...ring-viac.html.

(https://viac.ch/en/)

In general, Pillar 3A options are very poor here. I came here thinking that CH would have a great range of saving & investment opportunities but it doesn't, or certainly not compared with the UK's SIPPs and ISAs etc, where you're trusted to make your own investments if you wish. VIAC seems to offer better opportunities than most. The Credit Suisse Mixta 45 is slightly better than the usual cash-only, tiny interest options. But VIAC seems better.
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Old 30.09.2018, 17:29
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Re: Best 3rd pillar account investment possibilities

How old are you?
How long can you hold it?

If you think the stock-market is going to be bullish for a couple of years more, it might make more sense to invest the money in a conventional investment-vehicle (plenty of tips here around) and put the 6.something k into a boring pays-almost-no-interest plain-vanilla 3a account from whoever comparis thinks offers the most interest right now. The tax-savings are more attractive than the ROI anyway.

Those funds from Post-Finance (and others) are very late to the game IMO.

But don't take advice from me - I'm notoriously bad at investing and I think almost everything is overvalued at the moment.
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Old 30.09.2018, 21:56
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Re: Best 3rd pillar account investment possibilities

Thank you all for the replies. Indeed, as the market is right now, probably it makes more sense to just open an account at whatever decent bank out there and hold on to the money for the time being.
The main reason I am opening the account is for tax reasons (i.e. pay less tax). That should be a good enough benefit for now (at least in these high stock market prices).

Best regards!
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Old 30.09.2018, 22:07
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Re: Best 3rd pillar account investment possibilities

Well, some people think the stock market can grow like this for years and by holding on to cash, you're wasting a tremendous opportunity.
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Old 02.10.2018, 10:20
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Re: Best 3rd pillar account investment possibilities

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Thank you all for the replies. Indeed, as the market is right now, probably it makes more sense to just open an account at whatever decent bank out there and hold on to the money for the time being.
The main reason I am opening the account is for tax reasons (i.e. pay less tax). That should be a good enough benefit for now (at least in these high stock market prices).

Best regards!

Hello,


have you found the answer you were looking for?
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  #8  
Old 02.10.2018, 10:48
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Re: Best 3rd pillar account investment possibilities

I use VIAC.

Seems to be the cheapest way to invest your 3a into the stock market at around 0.5% per year fee.

I'm very happy with it.
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Old 02.10.2018, 12:47
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Re: Best 3rd pillar account investment possibilities

Based on what I've read on EF, I advise NOT to get a pillar 3 with an insurance company.
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Old 05.10.2018, 21:41
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Re: Best 3rd pillar account investment possibilities

Yes, that is also what I've found during my online research. I am interested to open a 3a account. By reading more around, also Swisscanto seems to be a good option for many people who are interested in investing their 3rd pillar money. I have to dig more into this apparently and see their Investment options (ETF range, fees, etc.)
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Old 12.10.2018, 09:08
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Re: Best 3rd pillar account investment possibilities

You may want to know that as of Jan 1st Postfinance will charge an account management fee even for those having more than 25.000 CHF assets. If I understood it correctly, the account management fees will not be charged if these 25.000 CHF are invested in a fund (included pillar 3 retirement funds).

Dont think this should drive your decision but good to know...
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Old 11.11.2018, 12:28
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Re: Best 3rd pillar account investment possibilities

About VIAC, here are the possibilities that I see for investment. Does anyone has anything which is not on this list? (sorry it's in French but i think everyone will still understand). Which allocation did you choose at the moment? Why?

Name Type Theme Devise Couts de Produits MAX
Cash Liquidités 0.00% 100.00%
CSIF SPI Extra Actions Actions Suisse Small/Mid Caps CHF 0.00% 35.00%
UBS ETF SLI Actions Actions Suisse LArge Caps CHF 0.20% 35.00%
CSIF SMI Actions Actions Suisse Large Caps CHF 0.00% 20.00%
CSIF Europe ex CH Actions Actions Europe ex CH EUR 0.00% 35.00%
iShares Core S&P 500 Actions Actions USA USD 0.07% 35.00%
CSIF Canada Actions Actions Canada CAD 0.00% 35.00%
CSIF Pacific ex Japan Actions Actions Pacifique ex Japon USD 0.00% 35.00%
CSIF Japan Actions Actions Japon JPY 0.00% 35.00%
CSIF World ex CH Actions Actions Monde ex CH USD 0.00% 60.00%
CSIF World ex CH hedged Actions Actions Monde ex CH (couvert en CHF) CHF 0.00% 60.00%
CSIF (CH) World ex CH Small Cap Actions Actions Monde ex CH Small Caps USD 0.09% 35.00%
CSIF (CH) World ex CH Small Cap hedged Actions Actions Monde ex CH Small Caps (couvert en CHF) CHF 0.09% 35.00%
CSIF Emerging Markets Actions Actions Pays Emergents USD 0.09% 20.00%
CSIF CH Bonds AAA-AA Emprunts Obligations Suisse CHF 0.00% 97.00%
CSIF World ex CH Gov. Bonds Emprunts Obligations Publiques Monde ex CH USD 0.00% 60.00%
CSIF CH Bonds Corporate Emprunts Obligations Privées Suisse CHF 0.00% 97.00%
CSIF World ex CH Corp Bonds Emprunts Obligations Privées Monde ex CH USD 0.00% 60.00%
CS (Lux) Global High Yield Bond Fund DB USD Emprunts Obligations à Haut Rendement Monde USD 0.10% 35.00%
CSIF Emerging Market Bonds Emprunts Obligations à Haut Rendement Pays Emergents USD 0.08% 35.00%
UBS ETF MSCI Switzerland IMI SRI Actions Actions Suisse (Durable) CHF 0.28% 35.00%
UBS ETF MSCI USA SRI Actions Actions USA (Durable) USD 0.33% 35.00%
UBS ETF MSCI EMU SRI Actions Actions Zone Euro (Durable) EUR 0.28% 35.00%
UBS ETF MSCI UK IMI SRI Actions Actions UK (Durable) GBP 0.28% 35.00%
UBS ETF MSCI Pacific SRI Actions Actions Pacifique (Durable) USD 0.40% 35.00%
UBS ETF MSCI Emerging Markets Actions Actions Pays Emergeants (Durable) USD 0.53% 20.00%
CSIF CH Real Estate Immobilier Immobilier Suisse CHF 0.00% 30.00%
CSIF Asia Real Estate Immobilier Immobilier Asie JPY 0.00% 15.00%
CSIF Europe ex CH Real Estate Immobilier Immobilier Europe EUR 0.00% 15.00%
iShares US Property Yield Immobilier Immobilier USA USD 0.40% 15.00%
CSIF Gold Matières Premières Or USD 0.08% 10.00%
iShares Listed Private Equity Placements Alternatifs Private Equity USD 0.75% 10.00%
UBS ETF Global Hedge Fund Placements Alternatifs Hedge Funds USD 0.33% 15.00%
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Old 11.11.2018, 21:42
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Re: Best 3rd pillar account investment possibilities

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About VIAC, here are the possibilities that I see for investment. Does anyone has anything which is not on this list? (sorry it's in French but i think everyone will still understand). Which allocation did you choose at the moment? Why?
Maximize CSIF World ex CH and CSIF SPI Extra. Everything else can be had cheaper through external brokers.
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Old 18.06.2019, 21:24
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Re: Best 3rd pillar account investment possibilities

Interesting thread so I thought to bring it back. I am on postfinance and had a meeting recently with them about funds.I checked their funds but I am not sure how these are compared to everything else available out there..

Do you still consider VIAC the best option? How different are the fees between VIAC and postfinance?
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Old 19.06.2019, 08:16
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Re: Best 3rd pillar account investment possibilities

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Interesting thread so I thought to bring it back. I am on postfinance and had a meeting recently with them about funds.I checked their funds but I am not sure how these are compared to everything else available out there..

Do you still consider VIAC the best option? How different are the fees between VIAC and postfinance?
Yes.

Regarding fees, why don't you check the postfinance and the VIAC websites?
Postfinance funds are 75% invested in stocks (possibly heavily weighted towards Swiss securities) at cost and cost ~1% pa.
VIAC instead lets you choose your portfolio allocation while costing ~0.5% pa.
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Old 19.06.2019, 20:58
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Re: Best 3rd pillar account investment possibilities

Thanks. I think postfinance gives you the choice of having 25%, 45% or 75% stocks. Anyways, I guess I am mainly wondering how you guys make the choices? Making my own in VIAC sounds good, but I wouldnt know where to start to at the moment...

Right now, I know what postfinance offers, but what about all the other banks? Do they mainly have the same or more funds?
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Old 19.06.2019, 21:12
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Re: Best 3rd pillar account investment possibilities

AFAIK, the 3rd-pillar money has to be invested domestically. Even if it's a fund.

This is PF's 25% prospectus:

https://www.postfinance.ch/pfch-web/...056260&lang=de


So, it's all Swiss stocks.


I need to start a new 3a account this year (can't let them grow too big, because it's paid out all at once and then taxed). I still have no idea what to do.
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Old 19.06.2019, 22:36
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Re: Best 3rd pillar account investment possibilities

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AFAIK, the 3rd-pillar money has to be invested domestically. Even if it's a fund.

This is PF's 25% prospectus:

https://www.postfinance.ch/pfch-web/...056260&lang=de


So, it's all Swiss stocks.


I need to start a new 3a account this year (can't let them grow too big, because it's paid out all at once and then taxed). I still have no idea what to do.

That is partly true, see https://viac.ch/en/features/
As far as I remember the idea is to "pool" everyone's money in order to overcome that limitation.
When using VIAC you are only required to have ~40% invested in Swiss securities/CHF cash.
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Old 19.06.2019, 22:38
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Re: Best 3rd pillar account investment possibilities

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Thanks. I think postfinance gives you the choice of having 25%, 45% or 75% stocks. Anyways, I guess I am mainly wondering how you guys make the choices? Making my own in VIAC sounds good, but I wouldnt know where to start to at the moment...

Right now, I know what postfinance offers, but what about all the other banks? Do they mainly have the same or more funds?

Have you actually spent 30 seconds on the VIAC website? https://viac.ch/en/strategies/

They have a number of ready-to-go strategies. The above link would be a good starting point if you don't know from where to start .
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Old 22.12.2019, 12:09
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Re: Best 3rd pillar account investment possibilities

Hello again,

I see many people in this forum praise the fact that they save taxes when they save money to the 3a pillar, lets say through a normal bank account (no insurance). But I really don't get the point:

When you open the 3a account in your 60-65, you have to pay lump sum tax (ok, its not too high), but then don't you have to pay tax on this amount in the traditional way? Lets say, if you have earned 60k in that year and you also open a 50k 3a pillar you will be taxed for 110K, right? Or am I missing something here? Where is the tax saving?
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