Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 14.01.2019, 12:05
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 22,869
Groaned at 544 Times in 416 Posts
Thanked 25,381 Times in 11,638 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
What will happen to our assets when we kick the bucket

For the moment, our adult kids, both dual nationals, still live in the UK where they were born and bred. What would happen re taxation if and when they inherit our assets in CH, financial and property, if they are still in UK at the time.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Odile for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 14.01.2019, 12:10
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: close to the frontier
Posts: 692
Groaned at 80 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 322 Times in 208 Posts
Clocker is considered knowledgeableClocker is considered knowledgeableClocker is considered knowledgeable
Re: What will happen to our assets when we kick the bucket

Not sure what would happen, but it could be complex and costly. Have you thought about the possibility of signing all or at least part of the estate over to them beforehand? I know from experience people do this to make things easier for those who are left behind.

Another (some will say drastic) option of course is to sell up/liquidate all assets in CH (and move to the UK) - that way the entire thing involves just one country.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 14.01.2019, 13:32
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 22,869
Groaned at 544 Times in 416 Posts
Thanked 25,381 Times in 11,638 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What will happen to our assets when we kick the bucket

No thank you at the moment that would be the last thing on my mind (return to Brexit UK).
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Odile for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 14.01.2019, 13:45
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: close to the frontier
Posts: 692
Groaned at 80 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 322 Times in 208 Posts
Clocker is considered knowledgeableClocker is considered knowledgeableClocker is considered knowledgeable
Re: What will happen to our assets when we kick the bucket

Fair enough but be aware that after you've gone things can be very complicated for those who are left to sort things out and divide things up. If more than one country is involved it can be a lot of hassle.
My aunt is always telling me how her friend in Zurich is always moaning on about how his late father's estate is still not properly sorted out. This father died 10 years ago now! One of the several complications is that one person in the will is Swiss but with UK domicile.

The more 'stuff' you have the more complex it can be. Better to have a simple situation and a very clear will drawn up. Any change of circumstance should mean checking to see whether the will needs updating/amending to reflect the new situation.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Clocker for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 14.01.2019, 13:52
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 17,565
Groaned at 279 Times in 228 Posts
Thanked 14,901 Times in 8,296 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What will happen to our assets when we kick the bucket

Quote:
View Post
For the moment, our adult kids, both dual nationals, still live in the UK where they were born and bred. What would happen re taxation if and when they inherit our assets in CH, financial and property, if they are still in UK at the time.
Assuming the UK revenue don't decide you're 'deemed domicile', there is no UK taxation except on UK assets, standard exemptions. Take note that the UK exemption between spouses assumes UK domicile, without it transfers of UK assets are potentially taxable. Not sure on Swiss taxation.

UK domicile has nothing to do where you live, unlike in CH.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 14.01.2019, 14:04
Today only's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 6,727
Groaned at 761 Times in 519 Posts
Thanked 8,250 Times in 3,908 Posts
Today only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What will happen to our assets when we kick the bucket

Who cares, no longer my problem !!
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Today only for this useful post:
This user groans at Today only for this post:
  #7  
Old 14.01.2019, 14:04
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: close to the frontier
Posts: 692
Groaned at 80 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 322 Times in 208 Posts
Clocker is considered knowledgeableClocker is considered knowledgeableClocker is considered knowledgeable
Re: What will happen to our assets when we kick the bucket

Quote:
View Post
No thank you at the moment that would be the last thing on my mind (return to Brexit UK).
And it seems you're not the only one avoiding the UK...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-46859574
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Clocker for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 14.01.2019, 14:09
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 25,827
Groaned at 1,611 Times in 1,239 Posts
Thanked 29,944 Times in 14,297 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What will happen to our assets when we kick the bucket

Inheritance taxes normally depend on the laws of the the country where they are located (MIL had assets in CH and I, so we have to deal with both systems, which fortunately have basically the same rules)

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 14.01.2019, 14:11
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 22,869
Groaned at 544 Times in 416 Posts
Thanked 25,381 Times in 11,638 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What will happen to our assets when we kick the bucket

Thanks Clocker- yes, we are fully domiciled in CH for all purposes including tax (and both dual nationals).
TBH no intention of kicking bucket soon, but at 68 and 73 ... the clock is ticking.

Our girls are both UK residents with dual nationality. Hopefully, they will all be in Switzerland by the time of our demise -as the UK becomes less and less attractive to remain in- the next few days and months will decide. They are lucky their dual nationality will give them a choice many will sadly no longer have, as will our grandchildren.

I will get daughter numero uno to check with her accountant in UK next time she meets up with him. Thanks.

Last edited by Odile; 14.01.2019 at 14:50.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Odile for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 14.01.2019, 14:11
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: close to the frontier
Posts: 692
Groaned at 80 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 322 Times in 208 Posts
Clocker is considered knowledgeableClocker is considered knowledgeableClocker is considered knowledgeable
Re: What will happen to our assets when we kick the bucket

Quote:
View Post
Inheritance taxes normally depend on the laws of the the country where they are located (MIL had assets in CH and I, so we have to deal with both systems, which fortunately have basically the same rules)

Tom
You mean where the assets are located, not where the death occurs or where the will was drawn up or where residence was held by the deceased or the residence held by the persons named in the will?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 14.01.2019, 14:19
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 25,827
Groaned at 1,611 Times in 1,239 Posts
Thanked 29,944 Times in 14,297 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What will happen to our assets when we kick the bucket

Quote:
View Post
You mean where the assets are located, not where the death occurs or where the will was drawn up or where residence was held by the deceased or the residence held by the persons named in the will?
Yes.

Swiss assets were dealt with by the Swiss, the Italian assets are still being dealt with in Italy 8 years later.

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 14.01.2019, 14:21
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: close to the frontier
Posts: 692
Groaned at 80 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 322 Times in 208 Posts
Clocker is considered knowledgeableClocker is considered knowledgeableClocker is considered knowledgeable
Re: What will happen to our assets when we kick the bucket

Quote:
View Post
he Italian assets are still being dealt with in Italy 8 years later.

Tom
That doesn't surprise me. Just another example of why it's best at a certain age to liquidate all assets in all countries except the final country of residence. It makes it so much easier for those who are left behind.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Clocker for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 14.01.2019, 14:26
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 17,565
Groaned at 279 Times in 228 Posts
Thanked 14,901 Times in 8,296 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What will happen to our assets when we kick the bucket

Quote:
View Post
Thanks Clocker- yes, we are fully domiciled in CH for all purposes including tax (and both dual nationals).
TBH no intention of kicking bucket soon, but at 68 and 73 ... the clock is ticking.
.
In that case there may be tax to pay on the first death on UK assets, passing to the wife depending on value.

'Fully domiciled in CH' is a term I have never heard of, you both live in CH & are CH domiciled for Swiss tax purposes. I am not talking about the Swiss definition of domicile or Swiss taxation.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 14.01.2019, 14:52
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 22,869
Groaned at 544 Times in 416 Posts
Thanked 25,381 Times in 11,638 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What will happen to our assets when we kick the bucket

Our property in the UK is just a holiday home- and yes, we have it confirmed that we are fully domiciled in CH, lock stock and barrel - a small holiday home there makes NO difference.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Odile for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 14.01.2019, 14:53
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: close to the frontier
Posts: 692
Groaned at 80 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 322 Times in 208 Posts
Clocker is considered knowledgeableClocker is considered knowledgeableClocker is considered knowledgeable
Re: What will happen to our assets when we kick the bucket

Quote:
View Post
you both live in CH & are CH domiciled for Swiss tax purposes.
Tax resident in CH.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 14.01.2019, 14:59
baboon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rheintal
Posts: 3,763
Groaned at 123 Times in 109 Posts
Thanked 4,930 Times in 2,398 Posts
baboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What will happen to our assets when we kick the bucket

Quote:
View Post
Our property in the UK is just a holiday home- and yes, we have it confirmed that we are fully domiciled in CH, lock stock and barrel - a small holiday home there makes NO difference.
You will almost certainly be....but from what I recall of your circumstances I would not be surprised if your OH was still considered to be domiciled in the UK. Do you really have a ruling from HMRC in writing on the subject?

Quote:
View Post
Tax resident in CH.
As was already mentioned, domicile in UK tax is (almost) completely separate from residence. Tax residents in CH can very easily be domiciled in the UK under UK law.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank baboon for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 14.01.2019, 15:00
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 17,565
Groaned at 279 Times in 228 Posts
Thanked 14,901 Times in 8,296 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What will happen to our assets when we kick the bucket

Quote:
View Post
Our property in the UK is just a holiday home- and yes, we have it confirmed that we are fully domiciled in CH, lock stock and barrel - a small holiday home there makes NO difference.
Your intention to possibly return, as stated many times by yourself could have more of a bearing than you believe.
The bigger question is were you ever UK domiciled & if so, have you definitively lost your UK domicile?
Under current (new) deemed domicile rules you would have become UK domiciled due to how long you lived in the UK, how HMRC & the appeal courts will interpret this going forward is not known.
Quote:
View Post
You will almost certainly be....but from what I recall of your circumstances I would not be surprised if your OH was still considered to be domiciled in the UK. Do you really have a ruling from HMRC in writing on the subject?

As was already mentioned, domicile in UK tax is (almost) completely separate from residence.
HMRC will never provide a ruling only the courts can do that.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 14.01.2019, 15:03
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 13,169
Groaned at 268 Times in 174 Posts
Thanked 15,491 Times in 6,569 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What will happen to our assets when we kick the bucket

Just spend all the money and avoid the problem entirely.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 14.01.2019, 15:03
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: close to the frontier
Posts: 692
Groaned at 80 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 322 Times in 208 Posts
Clocker is considered knowledgeableClocker is considered knowledgeableClocker is considered knowledgeable
Re: What will happen to our assets when we kick the bucket

Quote:
View Post
Under current (new) deemed domicile rules you would have become UK domiciled due to how long you lived in the UK
How long does one have to live (or to have lived) in the UK to be deemed UK-domiciled? Does nationality and/or change of nationality affect this?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 14.01.2019, 15:09
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 17,565
Groaned at 279 Times in 228 Posts
Thanked 14,901 Times in 8,296 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What will happen to our assets when we kick the bucket

Quote:
View Post
How long does one have to live (or to have lived) in the UK to be deemed UK-domiciled? Does nationality and/or change of nationality affect this?
Condition B) being resident 15 out of the previous 20 years makes you UK domiciled regardless of anything else.

If you acquire a domicile of choice it has to be permanent, by stating you might return it's clearly not permanent choice, the same is true if you subsequently move to another country.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Our house will be destroyed but we do not work, what can happen? hokuszpok Housing in general 15 27.02.2018 01:53
What will our descendents be amazed that we found OK? Caviarchips International affairs/politics 62 27.11.2011 23:13
what should we do when we change our universities and cantons? nillyBL125 Permits/visas/government 0 11.02.2010 18:26
What will happen if I leave Switzerland more than 3 months with the B permit ? cckkt Permits/visas/government 28 03.02.2010 20:16
By when will we have to pay in tax we underpaid for 2008 Tanya Finance/banking/taxation 6 04.04.2009 23:25


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:16.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0