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Old 28.01.2019, 13:52
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Are there 2nd-pillar vested benefit account that let you invest in ETFs?

Hi Experts,

Newbie here.

I'm leaving my job in one week, I am staying in Switzerland, and I won't look for a new job for about 6 months. I understand I need to transfer my 2nd pillar to a "vested benefit accounts".

By default those accounts give you a ridiculous interest rate (0.05% for postfinance, for example). However, some seem to let you invest (part of?) your assets in some funds.

But from what I gathered from some bank websites, these options seems quite limited. For instance, the Raiffeisen page about vested accounts is clear that the only thing you can invest in are their own pension funds.

Moneyland has a list of vested account providers with some basic data, but they don't say anything about investment opportunities.
  • Are there any vested benefit accounts that lets invest you assets however you please?
  • Assuming the answer is "no", how to find those that give you access to low-fee passive-investment funds?

Thanks in advance!
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Old 28.01.2019, 14:41
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Re: Are there 2nd-pillar vested benefit account that let you invest in ETFs?

Two things:

- This account is intended as a temporary parking place for pension funds. But some do allow for an investment in specifically designed funds not ETFs and in very limited circumstances.

- Second and most important! It would be very ill advised to invest in equities in any circumstances where the time lines are less than about five years.
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Old 28.01.2019, 15:21
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Re: Are there 2nd-pillar vested benefit account that let you invest in ETFs?

Yes. Just as an overview what might be possible https://www.liberty.ch/en/vested-ben...iberty-invest/
For example with Liberty you will need CHF 250k to be able to invest in ETF. But still than it is restricted what you actually can do.
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Old 28.01.2019, 20:16
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Re: Are there 2nd-pillar vested benefit account that let you invest in ETFs?

Thank you both Jim2007 and aSwissInTheUS.

Liberty is a reasonable solution, but it's not that cheap... They charge 0.4% for the account ON TOP of the feeds charged by the funds themselves: https://www.liberty.ch/en/vested-ben...s/investments/
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Old 28.01.2019, 21:24
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Re: Are there 2nd-pillar vested benefit account that let you invest in ETFs?

I think Swisscanto have some funds but not ETFs.

VIAC are said to introduce a more customizable vested benefits account this summer.
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Old 28.01.2019, 22:57
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Re: Are there 2nd-pillar vested benefit account that let you invest in ETFs?

As soon as you find a new job you'll need to move them to the Pillar 2 of the new job so what's the point of setting this up?
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Old 29.01.2019, 10:53
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Re: Are there 2nd-pillar vested benefit account that let you invest in ETFs?

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I understand I need to transfer my 2nd pillar to a "vested benefit accounts".
Nope.

Your old pension fund will wait 6-24 months before they act, upon which they will open a vested benefits account at an institution of their choice (unless you instruct them differently, they'll inform you about that beforehand).

So if you prefer to leave your money with them, simply call them up and enquire. I'd expect them to be helpful as they have lots of leeway, and "forgetting" (if necessary) to initiate the transfer will avoid basically unnecessary efforts for everybody involved so that would be in everybody's best interest.

It looks like VIAC gives you the most flexibility at reasonable costs. However, as has been said, don't invest if you expect to sell within months.

Remember to include accident insurance in your mandatory health insurance in a timely fashion. IIRC you're protected for some additional months by your soon-to-be-former-exployer's accident insurance but that'll run out. You want to remain in your current one as long as you can.
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Old 29.01.2019, 11:10
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Re: Are there 2nd-pillar vested benefit account that let you invest in ETFs?

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As soon as you find a new job you'll need to move them to the Pillar 2 of the new job so what's the point of setting this up?
I don't think you can be forced to do this. I know people who have not transferred their funds.
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Old 29.01.2019, 13:36
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Re: Are there 2nd-pillar vested benefit account that let you invest in ETFs?

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I don't think you can be forced to do this. I know people who have not transferred their funds.
They did not have to do it because of bank secrecy and a willingness of some institutions to facilitate this. The usual game is to pencil in the amount you wish to transfer to your new employer on the form you get from them before you send it the institution.

The trick is to transfer a reasonable amount. If you’ve been here fifteen years and only transfer say 5K, there will be a problem. And of course never make it a round sum for obvious reasons.

The only other case I know of is a person who was never asked to make the transfer.
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Old 30.01.2019, 12:03
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Re: Are there 2nd-pillar vested benefit account that let you invest in ETFs?

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They did not have to do it because of bank secrecy and a willingness of some institutions to facilitate this. The usual game is to pencil in the amount you wish to transfer to your new employer on the form you get from them before you send it the institution.

The trick is to transfer a reasonable amount. If you’ve been here fifteen years and only transfer say 5K, there will be a problem. And of course never make it a round sum for obvious reasons.

The only other case I know of is a person who was never asked to make the transfer.
I had a colleague who said that our then employer('s internal pension fund) was putting pressure on her to transfer her previous fund to theirs. She didn't want to and continued to resist. I don't know why the pressure or the resistance, but it does happen.

If you have multiple employers it becomes more complex of course and this colleague did have two fairly significant positions at the same time previously.
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Old 30.01.2019, 12:51
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Re: Are there 2nd-pillar vested benefit account that let you invest in ETFs?

You can be fined up to CHF 30'000 if you do not inform your new pension fund about any vested benefit accounts, and/or do not transfer all money.

Art. 4 FZG, Art. 76 BVG.
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Old 30.01.2019, 12:54
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Re: Are there 2nd-pillar vested benefit account that let you invest in ETFs?

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You can be fined up to CHF 30'000 if you do not inform your new pension fund about any vested benefit accounts, and/or do not transfer all money.

Art. 4 FZG, Art. 76 BVG.
Lovely. I wonder if anyone has ever been fined for (not) doing that.
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