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  #21  
Old 13.02.2019, 22:12
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Re: AHV Pension Estimate/Calculator

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Thank you! My husband and I are on the other side of 50 But I have a pretty good idea of his projected/average earnings. Can you tell me how children factor into the equation? We moved here 2 years ago and our kids are 28, 26 and 23 respectively. It appears as though, the amount changes when I add them into the AVH calculator...

no more than what I have said before. I can speculate that the calculator is for the most general CH case, not us special case expats! (c; if you and you kids had been here for more time in CH then you and they would have had a bigger contribution on the Swiss GDP etc. You would have had tax breaks for your kids etc. you would have had costs for your kids education etc. Your kids might be working in CH. State retirement planning and pension calculations have to balance many of these things over generations so that some sort of a payout can be achieved. As I said, I speculate, but to me this seems reasonable and fair. As a single person myself I am in fact subsidising the ability for families to get tax breaks in the narrowest sense, as my taxes are are higher, relatively, and my tax deductions fewer!
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  #22  
Old 13.02.2019, 22:28
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Re: AHV Pension Estimate/Calculator

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no more than what I have said before. I can speculate that the calculator is for the most general CH case, not us special case expats! (c; if you and you kids had been here for more time in CH then you and they would have had a bigger contribution on the Swiss GDP etc. You would have had tax breaks for your kids etc. you would have had costs for your kids education etc. Your kids might be working in CH. State retirement planning and pension calculations have to balance many of these things over generations so that some sort of a payout can be achieved. As I said, I speculate, but to me this seems reasonable and fair. As a single person myself I am in fact subsidising the ability for families to get tax breaks in the narrowest sense, as my taxes are are higher, relatively, and my tax deductions fewer!
I find it interesting that they ask what one's nationality is - in the AVH calculator prompts. PS.. most countries are listed alphabetically but not the US...lol! Great points you made about assumptions re: children etc... It will be interesting to see how the "expected" benefit pans out - especially with the "Windfall Elimination Provision" as we are US citizens but have been expats for 30+ years....

Here is a link if others from the US are affected/interested:

https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10045.pdf
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  #23  
Old 13.02.2019, 23:37
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Re: AHV Pension Estimate/Calculator

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I entered my husband's dates of employment and expected retirement date/last date of OASI contribution, as well as our children's info (not sure why this was relevant but maybe you can help me here?) and finally my info/birthdate as a non contributor.
If you are married you participate from your husbands contributions (and vice versa). Children are important as they add extra years and income while they are underage. Not sure if they also count when this was during a time you were not in Switzerland.

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The loss is always 2.3% x num of years/months, based on the amount you are entitled to. If the average 44 year salary is CHF84600 (approx the max) then you loose 2.3% for every year (i.e. 2.3% of CHF2350). If the average was CHF75000 then you loose 2.3% for each year of the equivalent mentioned in the PDF previously.
Not the average over 44 years but the average of your the in Switzerland/insured with AHV. If you are here only one year and earn CHF 84600 you will get the max amount, but adjusted to your time of stay (- 2.3% for each year missing). In the end you get something like CHF 107 per month. Try it with the calculator.
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Old 14.02.2019, 06:18
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Re: AHV Pension Estimate/Calculator

I think that years contributed into the US social security system prior to moving to Switzerland can be counted. Can someone confirm?
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  #25  
Old 22.05.2019, 10:53
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Re: AHV Pension Estimate/Calculator

OK. Let me see if I get this right:

The max contribution is 44 years at around 85'000 CHF. This gives you then a pension of 2'350 per month.

Now if you contribute for, say, only 22 years, then this is reduced pro rata to 1'175.

What if you earn 170'000 for 22 years and then 0 for 22 years? Is this then averaged out and so you still get 2'350? Or you still get 1'175? Or some other weird case?

Would this answer then be different from if you earn 170'000 for 22 years and then 1'000 for 22 years (working part time)?
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  #26  
Old 22.05.2019, 10:57
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Re: AHV Pension Estimate/Calculator

I just requested an extract of AHV just to see where I stand. https://www.ahv-iv.ch/en/Leaflets-fo...nt/Switzerland
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  #27  
Old 22.05.2019, 11:08
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Re: AHV Pension Estimate/Calculator

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What if you earn 170'000 for 22 years and then 0 for 22 years? Is this then averaged out and so you still get 2'350? Or you still get 1'175? Or some other weird case?
It depends. If you have been insured with AHV and paid the mandatory required minimum contribution (either yourself or through your spouse) when your income was 0 than it get's averaged out.

For any year you did not contribute to AHV your final rent will be reduced accordingly.

You must be insured and pay at least the minimum contribution with AHV (actual amount depends on wealth as well) if your are a non-working Swiss resident (See AHV leaflet 2.03 https://www.ahv-iv.ch/p/2.03.e ). If you live abroad than you might be able to stay insured with AHV and can pay your contributions (See https://www.ahv-iv.ch/en/Leaflets-fo.../International).

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Would this answer then be different from if you earn 170'000 for 22 years and then 1'000 for 22 years (working part time)?
CHF 1000 of earned income in a year is not enough to reach the minimum AHV contribution and you would have to top up. If you don't you will lose years and get a reduced rent. Be aware you only can back pay the last five years! This is specially relevant for students which might not earn enough.

Formula is like this:
How many years have you been insured with AHV?
What is the average salary for those years?
Look up rent in table which correspond to this average income.
How many years did you pay at least the minimum contribution (regardless if you have been insured or not)?
Adjust rent from table by number of years where you paid the minimum contribution.

So consider this three cases:
1. Has been insured with AHV for 22 years (moved here from abroad), earned 170'000 per year.
Average income is 170'000.
Full rent according table
Has only contributed 22 years.
Actual rent is 50% of full rent.

2. Has been insured with AHV for 44 years, earned 170'000 per year for 22 years, 0 all the others but paid minimum contributions.
Average income is 85'000.
Full rent according table.
Has contributed 44 years.
Actual rent is 100% of the full rent.

3. Has been insured with AHV for 44 years, earned 170'000 per year, for 22 years, 0 all the others and DID NOT pay minimum contributions.
Average income is 85'000.
Full rent according table.
Has contributed 22 years.
Actual rent is 50% of the full rent.
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  #28  
Old 22.05.2019, 12:39
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Re: AHV Pension Estimate/Calculator

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OK. Let me see if I get this right:

The max contribution is 44 years at around 85'000 CHF. This gives you then a pension of 2'350 per month.

Now if you contribute for, say, only 22 years, then this is reduced pro rata to 1'175.

What if you earn 170'000 for 22 years and then 0 for 22 years? Is this then averaged out and so you still get 2'350? Or you still get 1'175? Or some other weird case?

Would this answer then be different from if you earn 170'000 for 22 years and then 1'000 for 22 years (working part time)?
You get 1,175

No AVS on 1k a year so the same unless you pay approx 475 a year, then you get min for those years.
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  #29  
Old 22.05.2019, 14:52
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Re: AHV Pension Estimate/Calculator

As I will reach retirement age before being able to contribute 44 years, I guess I'm anyway limited to a portion of the maximum payout.

If possible, I would like to retire early which would further reduce this.

Since I earned more than the max contribution, potentially, I could try to average over the early retirement years if this is possible and the minimum contributions over these years don't outweigh the benefit of the additional pension.

To get make these additional payments, I guess I could:

1. Get a small job that pays enough; and/or
2. Top up/pay voluntarily (possible?); or
3. Become self-employed and earn money and pay contributions (?)

Anyone done option (2) or (3) or can confirm these are possibilities?

Or indeed went through a similar calculation and reached a conclusion on whether it is worth making the additional payments?
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  #30  
Old 22.05.2019, 15:04
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Re: AHV Pension Estimate/Calculator

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To get make these additional payments, I guess I could:

1. Get a small job that pays enough; and/or
2. Top up/pay voluntarily (possible?); or
3. Become self-employed and earn money and pay contributions (?)
No. 2 is mandatory. See AHV leaflet 2.03 https://www.ahv-iv.ch/p/2.03.e (which I might have already linked )
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Old 22.05.2019, 15:28
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Re: AHV Pension Estimate/Calculator

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No. 2 is mandatory. See AHV leaflet 2.03 https://www.ahv-iv.ch/p/2.03.e (which I might have already linked )
Thanks. It didn't register that this was mandatory. (although there's perhaps an exception if you have a spouse that pays enough?).
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  #32  
Old 22.05.2019, 15:48
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Re: AHV Pension Estimate/Calculator

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No. 2 is mandatory. See AHV leaflet 2.03 https://www.ahv-iv.ch/p/2.03.e (which I might have already linked )
Lets say I take 2019 off as a student, but my wife works and earns a reasonable salary.

1. Do I have to pay AHV
2. I assume it makes sense to pay anyhow. How and when do I pay?
3. If I expect to work later in the year after studies, then no need to pay?

Apologies if those are stupid questions.
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Old 22.05.2019, 15:48
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Re: AHV Pension Estimate/Calculator

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although there's perhaps an exception if you have a spouse that pays enough?.
Correct. Mentioned and explained in section 3 of said leaflet which I do not link a third time.
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Old 22.05.2019, 16:03
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Re: AHV Pension Estimate/Calculator

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Lets say I take 2019 off as a student, but my wife works and earns a reasonable salary.

1. Do I have to pay AHV
2. I assume it makes sense to pay anyhow. How and when do I pay?
3. If I expect to work later in the year after studies, then no need to pay?

Apologies if those are stupid questions.
1. No, not if your wife pays at least twice the minimum AHV contribution in a given year (minimum is at the moment CHF 482, or an annual income of CHF 4702)

2. If you have to pay you must do so through the Ausgleichskasse/Caisses de Compensation of the canton where you are studying. See leaflet
2.10 https://www.ahv-iv.ch/de/Merkbl%C3%A...-AHV-IV-EO-ALV and also leaflet 2.03

3. If you work and paid at least CHF 482 of AHV in a given year then there is no need to pay extra as a student.
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Old 22.05.2019, 17:07
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Re: AHV Pension Estimate/Calculator

Thank you aSwissIntheUS, for this very clear answer. I'd give you more rep but as I already gave you some, the system does not allow it for awhile.
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  #36  
Old 22.05.2019, 20:22
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Re: AHV Pension Estimate/Calculator

I will reach AHV age in 2020, after working for 27 years in the Swiss system. We gave up trying to do the calculations ourselves. Contributions abroad did not count (UK and NZ)-. According to our estimate from the AHV,I will get just over the minimum, my wife who kept up the minimum payments whilst abroad will get close to the max in due course -our advice to our kids has been to pay the minimum contributions when they are not working - AHV is about as as safe as any pension scheme gets and according to our calculations is a great investment ( any comments on this? )even if pillar2 and/or 3 are required to reach the desired level of luxury in retirement.
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Old 12.07.2019, 22:44
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Re: AHV Pension Estimate/Calculator

I received my AHV statement. If I arrived part way through the year, say Feb 2009, then does that mean my 11 months contribution doesn't count for a year as it was not a whole year? I'm assuming as it was a while ago there's also no option to top up the missing month?
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Old 13.07.2019, 08:27
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Re: AHV Pension Estimate/Calculator

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I received my AHV statement. If I arrived part way through the year, say Feb 2009, then does that mean my 11 months contribution doesn't count for a year as it was not a whole year? I'm assuming as it was a while ago there's also no option to top up the missing month?
I believe because you have paid more than the mimimilm amount, probably more than the max amount required in your case you will the full amount for the year.
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  #39  
Old 15.07.2019, 11:51
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Re: AHV Pension Estimate/Calculator

Just a question: if you do not work and need to pay AHV, is the amount capped? I see the last figure in the table is for 'wealth' of 8.4 million and AHV of around 24k is due. If you have 16 million, does it still remain at 24k, or does it increase still?

https://sozialversicherungen.admin.ch/de/d/6139
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