 | | 
03.03.2019, 22:01
| Junior Member | | Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Zurich
Posts: 32
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
| | Offsetting net salary income with big losses on stock exchange?
Hi all,
In 2018 I had substantial losses on the stock market (more than 50% my annual income) and was wondering if it is possible to offset the net salary income with these losses and thus pay reduced taxes?
In other words, is the taxable income calculated on the net salary income alone (while stock losses are separately considered only in the wealth tax part of the tax return), or is the taxable income calculated as net salary income minus the losses?
Much appreciated if anyone knows the answer.
Cheers
| This user groans at mdjilas for this post: | | 
03.03.2019, 22:04
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,365
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
| | Re: Offsetting net salary income with big losses on stock exchange? | Quote: | |  | | | Hi all,
In 2018 I had substantial losses on the stock market (more than 50% my annual income) and was wondering if it is possible to offset the net salary income with these losses and thus pay reduced taxes?
In other words, is the taxable income calculated on the net salary income alone (while stock losses are separately considered only in the wealth tax part of the tax return), or is the taxable income calculated as net salary income minus the losses?
Much appreciated if anyone knows the answer.
Cheers | | | | | No, there is generally no taxation of stock exchange profits or loss's
| This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post: | | 
03.03.2019, 22:09
| Junior Member | | Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Zurich
Posts: 32
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
| | Re: Offsetting net salary income with big losses on stock exchange? | Quote: | |  | | | No, there is generally no taxation of stock exchange profits or loss's | | | | | Lets say they classify me as a professional trader. Would I be able to reduce taxes in this case?
| 
03.03.2019, 22:15
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,365
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
| | Re: Offsetting net salary income with big losses on stock exchange? | Quote: | |  | | | Lets say they classify me as a professional trader. Would I be able to reduce taxes in this case? | | | | | If you were a professional trader but you will end up paying AVS as well as tax, so potentially well over 50% of any profits will be lost.
| This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post: | | 
03.03.2019, 22:24
| Junior Member | | Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Zurich
Posts: 32
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
| | Re: Offsetting net salary income with big losses on stock exchange? | Quote: | |  | | | If you were a professional trader but you will end up paying AVS as well as tax, so potentially well over 50% of any profits will be lost. | | | | | Sorry, I meant classified as "professional investor", not trader. Her is a link with clarification: https://www.moneyland.ch/en/stock-ma...ofits-tax-free
As I said I have a significant net loss (no profits) from trading. And AHV is paid from my "normal" full-time job unrelated to finance.
| 
03.03.2019, 22:27
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,365
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
| | Re: Offsetting net salary income with big losses on stock exchange? | Quote: | |  | | | Sorry, I meant classified as "professional investor", not trader. Her is a link with clarification: https://www.moneyland.ch/en/stock-ma...ofits-tax-free
As I said I have a significant net loss (no profits) from trading. And AHV is paid from my "normal" full-time job unrelated to finance. | | | | | The last thing anyone in their right mind would want to be classified as a professional investor. As previously said you will have to pay AVH & income tax on your profits.
| The following 3 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post: | | 
03.03.2019, 22:33
| Junior Member | | Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Zurich
Posts: 32
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
| | Re: Offsetting net salary income with big losses on stock exchange? | Quote: | |  | | | The last thing anyone in their right mind would want to be classified as a professional investor. As previously said you will have to pay AVH & income tax on your profits. | | | | | If my total annual net income that I declare in the tax return would be less than half as a professional investor, compared to being an individual investor, then it would make sense. e.g. declaring 50k instead of 150k.
| The following 2 users groan at mdjilas for this post: | | 
03.03.2019, 23:00
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,365
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
| | Re: Offsetting net salary income with big losses on stock exchange? | Quote: | |  | | | If my total annual net income that I declare in the tax return would be less than half as a professional investor, compared to being an individual investor, then it would make sense. e.g. declaring 50k instead of 150k. | | | | | No because you will always be a professional investor, it's not something you can choose each year as you choose.
| 
03.03.2019, 23:04
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 6,090
Groaned at 385 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 10,027 Times in 4,379 Posts
| | Re: Offsetting net salary income with big losses on stock exchange? | Quote: | |  | | | Hi all,
In 2018 I had substantial losses on the stock market (more than 50% my annual income) and was wondering if it is possible to offset the net salary income with these losses and thus pay reduced taxes?
In other words, is the taxable income calculated on the net salary income alone (while stock losses are separately considered only in the wealth tax part of the tax return), or is the taxable income calculated as net salary income minus the losses?
Much appreciated if anyone knows the answer.
Cheers | | | | | Well first of all it is very unlikely that you would get this status, if you are already fully employed... next if you do get the status it will not be for a single year and it will definitely not to start in a year you made a loss.
As a private individual you are not taxed on capital gains and you are also expected to take the hit when you loose... Be very careful what you wish for because it could open a whole new can of worms for you.
| The following 4 users would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post: | | 
04.03.2019, 01:49
| Banned | | Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Zurich
Posts: 24
Groaned at 46 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
| | Re: Offsetting net salary income with big losses on stock exchange? | Quote: | |  | | | No because you will always be a professional investor, it's not something you can choose each year as you choose. | | | | | Do you have some references for this? I thought this status was awarded on a year-to-year basis and it's merely that you can deduct losses over next 7 years
| This user groans at shackleford for this post: | | 
04.03.2019, 08:08
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: SG
Posts: 10,747
Groaned at 672 Times in 490 Posts
Thanked 14,584 Times in 7,626 Posts
| | Re: Offsetting net salary income with big losses on stock exchange? | Quote: | |  | | | If my total annual net income that I declare in the tax return would be less than half as a professional investor, compared to being an individual investor, then it would make sense. e.g. declaring 50k instead of 150k. | | | | | Pennywise but pound-foolish because you'd still be considered professional in the following years.
"The last thing anyone in their right mind would want to be classified as a professional investor. As previously said you will have to pay AVH & income tax on your profits."
| The following 3 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post: | | 
04.03.2019, 10:56
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Baselland
Posts: 15,800
Groaned at 308 Times in 207 Posts
Thanked 20,265 Times in 8,524 Posts
| | Re: Offsetting net salary income with big losses on stock exchange? | Quote: | |  | | | I thought this status was awarded on a year-to-year basis and it's merely that you can deduct losses over next 7 years | | | | | Do you have some references for this?
| 
04.03.2019, 11:02
| Banned | | Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Zurich
Posts: 24
Groaned at 46 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
| | Re: Offsetting net salary income with big losses on stock exchange?
You first.
| The following 3 users groan at shackleford for this post: | | 
04.03.2019, 11:43
|  | Senior Member | | Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Wollerau
Posts: 417
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 690 Times in 255 Posts
| | Re: Offsetting net salary income with big losses on stock exchange?
OP, go ahead and ask to be classified as Professional Trader/Investor in 2018 tax return.
Be prepared for Tax Office to re-open 2017 tax return, which was overflowing with capital gains.
| The following 2 users would like to thank DUTCH for this useful post: | | 
04.03.2019, 11:45
| | Re: Offsetting net salary income with big losses on stock exchange? | Quote: | |  | | | Do you have some references for this? | | | | | Just let him believe that he can register as a professional in all yrs he makes a loss and deduct this loss from his income from his other job, and be a private investor in all yrs with a win to avoid any taxes.
It is what he wants to hear, and not our problem.
| 
04.03.2019, 11:58
| | Re: Offsetting net salary income with big losses on stock exchange? | Quote: | |  | | | Do you have some references for this? I thought this status was awarded on a year-to-year basis and it's merely that you can deduct losses over next 7 years | | | | |
Does it really matter, evidently you are not very good at trading anyway    | The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post: | | 
04.03.2019, 13:28
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 6,090
Groaned at 385 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 10,027 Times in 4,379 Posts
| | Re: Offsetting net salary income with big losses on stock exchange? | Quote: | |  | | | OP, go ahead and ask to be classified as Professional Trader/Investor in 2018 tax return.
Be prepared for Tax Office to re-open 2017 tax return, which was overflowing with capital gains. | | | | | They will re-open more than 2017 and the new classification will also raise questions about the work permit since the OP is not here to work as an employee nor does he meet the economic sustainability requirements because of his losses.....
| This user would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post: | | 
04.03.2019, 14:59
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: basel
Posts: 1,385
Groaned at 27 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 1,349 Times in 573 Posts
| | Re: Offsetting net salary income with big losses on stock exchange?
Wow..
For a few hundred francs there are plenty of people who know how to complete a tax return form in the most efficient manner possible.
But the idea that you could offset investment losses is pretty laughable. Why not offset deprecation of your car's value or your stamp collection or your reputation...
| 
04.03.2019, 15:09
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Zurich area
Posts: 13,849
Groaned at 108 Times in 98 Posts
Thanked 21,609 Times in 9,483 Posts
| | Re: Offsetting net salary income with big losses on stock exchange? | Quote: | |  | | | OP, go ahead and ask to be classified as Professional Trader/Investor in 2018 tax return.
Be prepared for Tax Office to re-open 2017 tax return, which was overflowing with capital gains. | | | | | Specially check first if you fulfilled all your tax reporting obligations in the previous years. Depending on that you might have to use your once in a life time get out of tax issues for free card (just pay owned tax).
| This user would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post: | |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | | Thread Tools | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:24. | |