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Old 14.03.2019, 12:55
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English pension - Swiss tax Aaarrgghh

Just had a nice letter from the Zürich tax office. They say the double taxation agreement with UK does not cover UK pensions. So despite paying UK tax every year they want me to pay Swiss tax on the full amount for the last 10 years!

Nice of them to mention it now!

Anybody have any experience of this ruling, what happened? If you care to share?
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Old 14.03.2019, 13:52
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Re: English pension - Swiss tax Aaarrgghh

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Nice of them to mention it now!
You have only just declared your UK pension on your Swiss tax return due to exchange of info. How could they have told you if you were withholding the info in the first place.
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Old 14.03.2019, 13:59
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Re: English pension - Swiss tax Aaarrgghh

That’s what we were told right from the outset so have always paid tax on the UK pension here in Switzerland.
It’s not a huge amount and would be below the tax threshold if we were paying UK tax on it so we were a bit miffed when they told us it had to be taxed here.
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Old 14.03.2019, 14:14
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Re: English pension - Swiss tax Aaarrgghh

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Nice of them to mention it now!
When did you tell them you are getting a taxable income out of the UK?
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Old 14.03.2019, 15:25
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Re: English pension - Swiss tax Aaarrgghh

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When did you tell them you are getting a taxable income out of the UK?
Four years ago!
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Old 14.03.2019, 15:27
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Re: English pension - Swiss tax Aaarrgghh

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Four years ago!
Well if you take 6 yrs to tell them you have a taxable income and they tax you after 4 yrs I'd say they are still 50% faster than you are

And how exactly did you file the amounts on the paper, if you put it in the right spot you should have been paying tax as of day 1.
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Old 14.03.2019, 15:37
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Re: English pension - Swiss tax Aaarrgghh

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Well if you take 6 yrs to tell them you have a taxable income and they tax you after 4 yrs I'd say they are still 50% faster than you are

And how exactly did you file the amounts on the paper, if you put it in the right spot you should have been paying tax as of day 1.
Actually no, they taxed me every year since.
3 years ago they even asked me for proof of my payments of UK tax so they could check my double taxation calculation.

My mistake was I thought my Treuhander knew what they were doing ;(
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Old 14.03.2019, 15:39
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Re: English pension - Swiss tax Aaarrgghh

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Actually no, they taxed me every year since.
3 years ago they even asked me for proof of my payments of UK tax so they could check my double taxation calculation.

My mistake was I thought my Treuhander knew what they were doing ;(
So you first say the tax office is at fault, and just a few postings later you say your "bookkeeper" is at fault.

Yeah, makes sense.
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Old 14.03.2019, 15:55
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Re: English pension - Swiss tax Aaarrgghh

Your English is not so good? Where did I ever claim the tax office is at fault?
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Old 14.03.2019, 16:08
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Re: English pension - Swiss tax Aaarrgghh

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Your English is not so good? Where did I ever claim the tax office is at fault?
Well:

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Nice of them to mention it now!
Very strongly implies they should have mentioned it earlier.
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Old 14.03.2019, 16:12
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Re: English pension - Swiss tax Aaarrgghh

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Well:



Very strongly implies they should have mentioned it earlier.
Great advice, I will carry it with me always!
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Old 14.03.2019, 16:22
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Re: English pension - Swiss tax Aaarrgghh

Don‘t totally follow this. I have not completed a UK tax form for over 25 years. My UK pension is paid directly into my Swiss bank account in CHF. I add up the amounts on a piece of paper and stick it in the Swiss tax form each year.

Fatmanfilms advised a week or so ago on another pension thread that I should use my UK tax allownce for my UK pension payments - but that would attract double taxation it seems...
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Old 14.03.2019, 16:25
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Re: English pension - Swiss tax Aaarrgghh

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Don‘t totally follow this. I have not completed a UK tax form for over 25 years. My UK pension is paid directly into my Swiss bank account in CHF. I add up the amounts on a piece of paper and stick it in the Swiss tax form each year.

Fatmanfilms advised a week or so ago on another pension thread that I should use my UK tax allownce for my UK pension payments - but that would attract double taxation it seems...
Seems strange the Swiss are not allowing it, the UK would accept the reverse.
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Old 14.03.2019, 16:27
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Re: English pension - Swiss tax Aaarrgghh

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Very strongly implies they should have mentioned it earlier.
It could be argued that they should have. Unless they have just discovered that this is the case which is a bit hard to believe.
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Old 14.03.2019, 16:35
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Re: English pension - Swiss tax Aaarrgghh

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Don‘t totally follow this. I have not completed a UK tax form for over 25 years. My UK pension is paid directly into my Swiss bank account in CHF. I add up the amounts on a piece of paper and stick it in the Swiss tax form each year.

Fatmanfilms advised a week or so ago on another pension thread that I should use my UK tax allownce for my UK pension payments - but that would attract double taxation it seems...
I was incorrectly advised that I could deduct the UK tax I paid on my UK pension from the Swiss tax I pay.
Now I can ask the UK to stop deducting this tax but they only go back four years.
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Old 14.03.2019, 17:10
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Re: English pension - Swiss tax Aaarrgghh

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Just had a nice letter from the Zürich tax office. They say the double taxation agreement with UK does not cover UK pensions. So despite paying UK tax every year they want me to pay Swiss tax on the full amount for the last 10 years!

Nice of them to mention it now!

Anybody have any experience of this ruling, what happened? If you care to share?
Actually it does and it is very specific, unless your pension is being paid from the public purse:

Quote:
18.1 - Subject to the provisions of paragraph (2) of Article 19, pensions and other similar remuneration paid to an individual who is a resident of a Contracting State, shall be taxable only in that State.
And is your responsibility to ensure you submit an accurate tax return, not their responsibility to point out your errors, unless it is flagged up in a random audit.

Have you looked at your contract with your tax agent. You might have some chance of redress there, although they usually cover their asses too.
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Old 14.03.2019, 17:18
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Re: English pension - Swiss tax Aaarrgghh

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I was incorrectly advised that I could deduct the UK tax I paid on my UK pension from the Swiss tax I pay.
Now I can ask the UK to stop deducting this tax but they only go back four years.
Who advised you, your tax agent or the Revenue authorities? Assuming there is a lot of cash involved, it might be worth having a chat to some tax advisor in the UK. There may be a small chance if they had all the information from the start and failed to apply the DTA on it - ie your should not have been taxes at all.
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Old 14.03.2019, 17:21
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Re: English pension - Swiss tax Aaarrgghh

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Have you looked at your contract with your tax agent. You might have some chance of redress there, although they usually cover their asses too.
typically damages is contractually limited to the fees you paid them.
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Old 14.03.2019, 18:08
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Re: English pension - Swiss tax Aaarrgghh

It is for OP to confirm who exactly messed up, but it seems the Swiss Treuhander, if anything was being too aggressive to say no CH tax is due, which turns out to be incorrect and needs to be remedied. At fault is the person who advised to pay UK tax to begin with. I doubt it was the Swiss Treuhander.
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Old 14.03.2019, 18:54
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Re: English pension - Swiss tax Aaarrgghh

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It is for OP to confirm who exactly messed up, but it seems the Swiss Treuhander, if anything was being too aggressive to say no CH tax is due, which turns out to be incorrect and needs to be remedied. At fault is the person who advised to pay UK tax to begin with. I doubt it was the Swiss Treuhander.
In UK they automatically deduct the tax out of UK pensions payments, like Quellensteuer.
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