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Old 09.04.2019, 19:47
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Shipping from Germany to..Germany and tax back.

Hi all!

I would appreciate some guidelines related to buying furniture from Germany.

I am about to buy a set of furniture online and get it shipped from Germany to Swiss-Paket in Loerrach. I messaged the seller and he said as soon as he receives ‘abgestempelten Lieferschein’ from me, he can return german VAT.

Here are my questions:

- As far as understood, the Lieferschein will be attached to the shipment, as usual, so I have to stop at the border and get it stamped. Do I need anything else? Grocery stores issue Ausfuhrscheins. Do I need it?
- Do I pay 7.7% Swiss VAT on top of the net or gross german price?

TIA!
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Old 09.04.2019, 20:00
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Re: Shipping from Germany to..Germany and tax back.

If the Lieferschein has your Swiss address that is good enough. Ausfuhrschein is only needed because a normal store receipt does not have your address on it.

Swiss VAT will be levied on net price sans foreign taxes.
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Old 09.04.2019, 20:17
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Re: Shipping from Germany to..Germany and tax back.

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If the Lieferschein has your Swiss address that is good enough. Ausfuhrschein is only needed because a normal store receipt does not have your address on it.
Thank you, aSwissInTheUS! Do you think it is enough to give my swiss address as a billing address, and swisspaket address as a delivery address?
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Old 09.04.2019, 20:33
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Re: Shipping from Germany to..Germany and tax back.

Ask OP Amanda Portman, she is top hole VAT specialist
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Old 09.04.2019, 21:58
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Re: Shipping from Germany to..Germany and tax back.

I would expect:

- You buy furniture in Germany and have it shipped to a well known address in Germany: VAT is payable.
- You export your furniture from Germany to Switzerland, no VAT refund due.

it will be interesting to here how it pans out for you.
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Old 09.04.2019, 22:10
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Re: Shipping from Germany to..Germany and tax back.

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I would expect:

- You buy furniture in Germany and have it shipped to a well known address in Germany: VAT is payable.
- You export your furniture from Germany to Switzerland, no VAT refund due.

it will be interesting to here how it pans out for you.
If discussed upfront with the seller there should be no problem at all, when passing the border he can simply have the bill stamped, send bill to store (or copy by mail) and store refunds VAT.

Why would this not work? When buying personally in Germany stores we all cros the border with "our stuff"
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Old 09.04.2019, 22:12
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Re: Shipping from Germany to..Germany and tax back.

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Thank you, aSwissInTheUS! Do you think it is enough to give my swiss address as a billing address, and swisspaket address as a delivery address?
No, store does not send outside Switzerland and thus cannot sell without charging VAT, they need the stamp from the border to verify stuff is actually exported after which they can refund.
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Old 09.04.2019, 22:20
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Re: Shipping from Germany to..Germany and tax back.

I think this must somehow work since I want to buy at woodkings.de and they send to Switzerland using meineinkauf.ch. This third-party does customs clearance and a difference in tax takes as a profit. I asked them for a quote and in my case it would be a hefty 300 CHF + I would have to pay original price in EUR.

https://www.woodkings.de/zahlung-und-versand
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Old 09.04.2019, 22:31
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Re: Shipping from Germany to..Germany and tax back.

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I think this must somehow work since I want to buy at woodkings.de and they send to Switzerland using meineinkauf.ch. This third-party does customs clearance and a difference in tax takes as a profit. I asked them for a quote and in my case it would be a hefty 300 CHF + I would have to pay original price in EUR.

https://www.woodkings.de/zahlung-und-versand
They also do deliver to your home for that money, and if that 300,- includes Swiss VAT it might not be so bad after all.

And you must not "think this must somehow work" you will have to talk with the store if they will coöperate with your method since refunding VAT is voluntary.
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Old 09.04.2019, 22:41
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Re: Shipping from Germany to..Germany and tax back.

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Ask OP Amanda Portman, she is top hole VAT specialist

She probably has more of an idea than some of the other posts already in this thread.
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Old 09.04.2019, 22:43
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Re: Shipping from Germany to..Germany and tax back.

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Why would this not work? When buying personally in Germany stores we all cros the border with "our stuff"

There was talk, but I don't know if it was implemented, that VAT would be recoverable on goods physically bought in German shops and exported but that items bought online and delivered to a German address would not be eligible for VAT refunds. Like I said I don't know if this rule was actually ever implemented.
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Old 09.04.2019, 22:46
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Re: Shipping from Germany to..Germany and tax back.

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No, store does not send outside Switzerland and thus cannot sell without charging VAT, they need the stamp from the border to verify stuff is actually exported after which they can refund.

He's talking about getting his Swiss address on the invoice for the purposes of getting a German export stamp at the border, and I think this would be perfectly sufficient.
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Old 09.04.2019, 22:47
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Re: Shipping from Germany to..Germany and tax back.

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They also do deliver to your home for that money, and if that 300,- includes Swiss VAT it might not be so bad after all.

And you must not "think this must somehow work" you will have to talk with the store if they will coöperate with your method since refunding VAT is voluntary.
Yes, I asked them directly and got the answer:

Quote:
Hallo,

Sie können auch ganz normal bei uns bestellen.
Wenn Sie die Möbel dann in die Schweiz überführen, benötigen wir den abgestempelten Lieferschein.
D.h. wenn Sie uns diesen zukommen lassen, erstatten wir Ihnen die Mehrwertsteuer zurück.
Wir hoffen Ihnen damit weitergeholfen zu haben und wünschen noch einen schönen Abend.
I think instead of paying additional 300 CHF for this exercise I could even save some money:

- 819 EUR (incl. VAT) = 663 EUR (+ 155 EUR VAT)
- free delivery in Germany
- 53 EUR swiss tax
- total: 716 EUR (instead 819 EUR + 300 CHF for delivery)

I asked Amanda via PM and also asked the seller again if they could sign for me Ausfuhrschein. Will let you know know it goes.
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Old 09.04.2019, 22:49
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Re: Shipping from Germany to..Germany and tax back.

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There was talk, but I don't know if it was implemented, that VAT would be recoverable on goods physically bought in German shops and exported but that items bought online and delivered to a German address would not be eligible for VAT refunds. Like I said I don't know if this rule was actually ever implemented.
Never heard of, and with absolutely certainty not implemented at this moment.

All that is of concern to get a stamp at the border is if within 3 months of the purchase the buyer personally exports the goods.
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Old 09.04.2019, 22:57
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Re: Shipping from Germany to..Germany and tax back.

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He's talking about getting his Swiss address on the invoice for the purposes of getting a German export stamp at the border, and I think this would be perfectly sufficient.
In that case, yeah sure. I thought he referred to buying VAT-Free.
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Old 10.04.2019, 03:31
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Re: Shipping from Germany to..Germany and tax back.

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If discussed upfront with the seller there should be no problem at all, when passing the border he can simply have the bill stamped, send bill to store (or copy by mail) and store refunds VAT.

Why would this not work? When buying personally in Germany stores we all cros the border with "our stuff"
Do you understand VAT law? VAT is ultimately paid by the consumer and there is no refund when a German company delivers to a consumer at a German address. Normally it would go unnoticed because most people’s packages are small enough to go in the car, but furniture is a bit big....
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Old 10.04.2019, 03:35
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Re: Shipping from Germany to..Germany and tax back.

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I think this must somehow work since I want to buy at woodkings.de and they send to Switzerland using meineinkauf.ch. This third-party does customs clearance and a difference in tax takes as a profit. I asked them for a quote and in my case it would be a hefty 300 CHF + I would have to pay original price in EUR.

https://www.woodkings.de/zahlung-und-versand
This is different from a legal point of view - you the ultimate consumer are not having the goods delivered to you at an address in Germany and then importing them.
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Old 10.04.2019, 07:26
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Re: Shipping from Germany to..Germany and tax back.

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I would expect:

- You buy furniture in Germany and have it shipped to a well known address in Germany: VAT is payable.
- You export your furniture from Germany to Switzerland, no VAT refund due.

it will be interesting to here how it pans out for you.
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Do you understand VAT law? VAT is ultimately paid by the consumer and there is no refund when a German company delivers to a consumer at a German address. Normally it would go unnoticed because most people’s packages are small enough to go in the car, but furniture is a bit big....
Jim2007 and any other doubters, it is very simple.

- for an in-store purchase, check the store offers the service (it is optional), request or download the non-commercial export certificate (https://www.zoll.de/SharedDocs/Downl...heinigung.html), get this stamped at the shop and at the border within 3 months, return to store later with the form for refund / credit against next purchase.

- for online purchase with delivery within Germany, it is essentially the same, get the export form stamped at the border (along with sales receipt etc.) and submit to the seller for refund

I bought a bike online from Canyon.de, had it delivered to http://www.lieferadresse-konstanz.de/ , paid 20EUR fee to them, stamped the export form at the border, paid Swiss MwSt (as value > 300 CHF), sent the export form to the seller and received the German MwSt credit in my account a month later.

Nice explanation at https://www.mypaketshop.com/mehrwert...ne-und-online/

I don't buy German to save money, but to get stuff I cannot get (easily / at all) in Switzerland. The above is a nice perk.
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Old 10.04.2019, 08:17
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Re: Shipping from Germany to..Germany and tax back.

Hello,


There are many complex things have been said but its not complicated as told.


I recently bought a laptop (the price was around 1500 euro) and here is my process:


1- they sent me the bill online so I printed it out (on the bill there was not my address in switzerland, it was the delivery address that is las-burg delivery service address)
2- I got the product from las-burg and went to the custom.
3- I gave the bill and ID
4- he controlled and checked address (and told that if you would buy online, your address does not be in swizterland, but if you would buy from a normal shop then your home address must be on the bill)
5- he only stamped the bill

6- I've wrote a letter that I demand the tax back and put the stamped bill in a letter
7- sent to the company where I bought the product


The refund process may take 1-2 months and they will cut 15-20 euro for the process fee..


PS: Normally I had to pay swiss tax as well but I did not go to the swiss custom and there was no control (it was evening).


I hope, all is clear now.
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Old 10.04.2019, 12:40
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Re: Shipping from Germany to..Germany and tax back.

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Do you understand VAT law?
Clearly you don't.
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VAT is ultimately paid by the consumer and there is no refund when a German company delivers to a consumer at a German address.
The product fits the rules for a refund when the owner of the product brings it across the border and gets his stamp, just like he would do if he bought food in a German supermarket and gets his stamp at the border.

You do want to read up on things before making any more claims in this topic.
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