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Old 28.05.2019, 00:09
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Live in Switzerland, remote work in UK - how to find definitive answer on tax?

Hi all,

My first post on the forum! Looking forward to getting involved with the community

Our situation:

We're Brits moving to Adliswil in October, as my husband has been offered a job in Zurich. My current employer in the UK has offered to let me work remotely from CH, so long as I visit the UK office for 3 days each month for meetings. I'll be staying a few extra days each month to see family.

My employer wants me to find out how this will affect my PAYE deductions in the UK. I was under the impression (from the UK gov website), that due to double-taxation agreements, I could be resident in Switzerland while being paid & taxed as a regular employee as usual in the UK, and it would just be a case of doing the admin to avoid being doubly-taxed. But after reading a few posts on this forum, I'm no longer sure if this is the case. I'd like to get professional advice to find out if the Swiss authorities will have a problem with me residing in Switzerland while being employed in the UK, or if I'll need to set up some sort of self-employed structure.

Questions:

Who in Zurich/Adliswil can I speak to establish for certain what this means for my tax situation? Is there a government office I can contact? Or is it better to speak to an independent tax specialist? Is there anyone who speaks English and can advise over the phone/email?

At this stage I just need advice to find out what the tax setup would be, not getting into details or submitting forms yet - is it possible to get this kind of advice relatively inexpensively?

Who should I contact in the UK to make sure everything is fine this end - HMRC?

Also what's the deal with 183 v.s. 91 days each year to retain non-resident status in the UK?

Out of interest here's the forum posts I found with similar questions:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Thanks so much for any advice!
Jenny
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Old 28.05.2019, 08:18
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Re: Live in Switzerland, remote work in UK - how to find definitive answer on tax?

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Who in Zurich/Adliswil can I speak to establish for certain what this means for my tax situation? Is there a government office I can contact? Or is it better to speak to an independent tax specialist? Is there anyone who speaks English and can advise over the phone/email?
Filter for "Steuern" on this page. You get
+41 44 711 77 65
steuern@adliswil.ch

Your eMail should be Ok in English. Perhaps use that to enquire if they can answer your questions by the phone.
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Old 28.05.2019, 08:44
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Re: Live in Switzerland, remote work in UK - how to find definitive answer on tax?

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Hi all,

My first post on the forum! Looking forward to getting involved with the community

Our situation:

We're Brits moving to Adliswil in October, as my husband has been offered a job in Zurich. My current employer in the UK has offered to let me work remotely from CH, so long as I visit the UK office for 3 days each month for meetings. I'll be staying a few extra days each month to see family.

My employer wants me to find out how this will affect my PAYE deductions in the UK. I was under the impression (from the UK gov website), that due to double-taxation agreements, I could be resident in Switzerland while being paid & taxed as a regular employee as usual in the UK, and it would just be a case of doing the admin to avoid being doubly-taxed. But after reading a few posts on this forum, I'm no longer sure if this is the case. I'd like to get professional advice to find out if the Swiss authorities will have a problem with me residing in Switzerland while being employed in the UK, or if I'll need to set up some sort of self-employed structure.

Questions:

Who in Zurich/Adliswil can I speak to establish for certain what this means for my tax situation? Is there a government office I can contact? Or is it better to speak to an independent tax specialist? Is there anyone who speaks English and can advise over the phone/email?

At this stage I just need advice to find out what the tax setup would be, not getting into details or submitting forms yet - is it possible to get this kind of advice relatively inexpensively?

Who should I contact in the UK to make sure everything is fine this end - HMRC?

Also what's the deal with 183 v.s. 91 days each year to retain non-resident status in the UK?

Out of interest here's the forum posts I found with similar questions:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Thanks so much for any advice!
Jenny
Your UK tax residence will be based on the statutory definition of UK residence, i.e ties to the UK. Days in the UK are counted at midnight, work days when you did 3 hours of work.
If you would only have 3 ties & you spent 45 or less nights in the UK you would be non resident, difficult but not impossible working 3 days a month. Switzerland will deem you tax resident regardless.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...nal_078500.pdf
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Old 28.05.2019, 10:46
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Re: Live in Switzerland, remote work in UK - how to find definitive answer on tax?

The simplest solution is to become a contractor and invoice them through an umbrella company. That way you are properly covered for accident insurance, social welfare, unemployment, taxation pension etc.

Otherwise you will be a non resident employee of a UK company, while at the same time being an employee of a non resident company in Switzerland. Which will create admin headaches for both you and the company. For instance, most likely you will not be subject to PAYE, but to withholding tax and NI is different too, so the company canít just run you through their payroll as before. There are also a lot of issues around pensions and disability insurance that would need sorting out. And of course your Swiss tax return would not be straight forward either.
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Old 28.05.2019, 11:17
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Re: Live in Switzerland, remote work in UK - how to find definitive answer on tax?

This is one of those situations where I'd strongly advise talking to a good tax expert. There are many pro's and con's in your situation taking into account many different circumstances. An hour for discussion, advice and then a written opinion should be 2 hours max and set you back around CHF 750
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Old 28.05.2019, 11:48
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Re: Live in Switzerland, remote work in UK - how to find definitive answer on tax?

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The simplest solution is to become a contractor and invoice them through an umbrella company.
If you do this, try to get you employer to pay you full employment costs. I.e. gross pay + UK employers NI + the value of other benefits you won't be getting. As a contractor you'll be responsible for employers social contribution in Switzerland, so you want to make sure at least that's covered.

Bear in mind that you'll lose any employment protection.
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Old 28.05.2019, 11:55
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Re: Live in Switzerland, remote work in UK - how to find definitive answer on tax?

Thanks so much for your advice everyone, I really appreciate you taking the time to reply.

Sounds like this is going to be more complicated than I was anticipating! I'll contact Steuern in Adliswil, and will definitely seek professional advice.

Regarding finding a "good tax expert" - I've seen some recommendations for experts in the local area on the forums, but is there anything I should look out for - membership of certain professional organisations for example?

For contractor/umbrella company, can anyone give a very rough estimate of the admin cost of setting this up & of the yearly tax return?

I've never had to do anything like this before!

Thanks,
Jenny
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Old 28.05.2019, 12:18
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Re: Live in Switzerland, remote work in UK - how to find definitive answer on tax?

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Regarding finding a "good tax expert" - I've seen some recommendations for experts in the local area on the forums, but is there anything I should look out for - membership of certain professional organisations for example?
You need someone that has a good understanding not only of Switzerland, but also the UK. I have not had any contact with them recently, but these guys are good: taxexpert.ch

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For contractor/umbrella company, can anyone give a very rough estimate of the admin cost of setting this up & of the yearly tax return?
There is no need to setup a company, just use one of the existing service companies.
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Old 28.05.2019, 12:22
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Re: Live in Switzerland, remote work in UK - how to find definitive answer on tax?

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The simplest solution is to become a contractor and invoice them through an umbrella company. That way you are properly covered for accident insurance, social welfare, unemployment, taxation pension etc.

Otherwise you will be a non resident employee of a UK company, while at the same time being an employee of a non resident company in Switzerland. Which will create admin headaches for both you and the company. For instance, most likely you will not be subject to PAYE, but to withholding tax and NI is different too, so the company canít just run you through their payroll as before. There are also a lot of issues around pensions and disability insurance that would need sorting out. And of course your Swiss tax return would not be straight forward either.
The OP will still likely be UK tax resident regardless of any games played, therefore taxable on worldwide income in the UK as well as CH.
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Old 28.05.2019, 13:24
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Re: Live in Switzerland, remote work in UK - how to find definitive answer on tax?

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Also what's the deal with 183 v.s. 91 days each year to retain non-resident status in the UK?
That's pretty simple if you look at it from the Swiss side. If you are first allocated an L residence permit, you are only allowed to be outside of Switzerland for 90 days per annum before risking your right to reside. On a B permit, this increases to 180 days per annum.
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Old 28.05.2019, 15:35
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Re: Live in Switzerland, remote work in UK - how to find definitive answer on tax?

have a look at www.startup.ch There's also a link to a company that will do all the back office stuff for you, such as AI, AVS etc.
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Old 28.05.2019, 16:13
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Re: Live in Switzerland, remote work in UK - how to find definitive answer on tax?

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The OP will still likely be UK tax resident regardless of any games played, therefore taxable on worldwide income in the UK as well as CH.
Possibly. But the point is that the procedures for the company and her are diffident in respect of PAYE, NI, Pensions etc... And if it starts to be come an effort for the company, they may decide it is not worth the effort...
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Old 28.05.2019, 16:48
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Re: Live in Switzerland, remote work in UK - how to find definitive answer on tax?

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Possibly. But the point is that the procedures for the company and her are diffident in respect of PAYE, NI, Pensions etc... And if it starts to be come an effort for the company, they may decide it is not worth the effort...
I don't think it's any different for UK PAYE, intrigued why you think it would be?
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Old 30.05.2019, 16:11
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Re: Live in Switzerland, remote work in UK - how to find definitive answer on tax?

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Switzerland will deem you tax resident regardless.
There are also good flow chart based UK residency tests issued by all the major firms, easier to follow, although should always check with HMRC guidance. I do agree its pretty hard to leave the UK residency net.

The Swiss is test is the more subjective "centre of vital interests" I believe, and agree that the Swiss would likely regard the OP as resident on that basis. So easy to be resident in both places.

Would that not then lead to the Article 4 of the DTA, and the UK and CH agreeing OP is resident in the UK if the OP has an habitual abode there, and CH resident if the OP does not and their centre of vital interests is CH?

https://assets.publishing.service.go...tzerlandUK.pdf
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Old 30.05.2019, 16:24
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Re: Live in Switzerland, remote work in UK - how to find definitive answer on tax?

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There are also good flow chart based UK residency tests issued by all the major firms, easier to follow, although should always check with HMRC guidance. I do agree its pretty hard to leave the UK residency net.

The Swiss is test is the more subjective "centre of vital interests" I believe, and agree that the Swiss would likely regard the OP as resident on that basis. So easy to be resident in both places.

Would that not then lead to the Article 4 of the DTA, and the UK and CH agreeing OP is resident in the UK if the OP has an habitual abode there, and CH resident if the OP does not and their centre of vital interests is CH?

https://assets.publishing.service.go...tzerlandUK.pdf
Living as husband & wife in CH, no doubt with residence permits. Difficult to claim CH is not the centre of your life. DTA is from 1977, UK has tightened up since then.
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