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-   -   What happens to pensions when you leave for an EU country? (https://www.englishforum.ch/finance-banking-taxation/293461-what-happens-pensions-when-you-leave-eu-country.html)

justcamehere 10.08.2019 02:38

What happens to pensions when you leave for an EU country?
 
What happens to pillar 1 when you leave for another EU country? Is there some transfer of credits that goes to the social security of the new country or at retirement age the retiree will be claiming a pension from Switzerland directly?


What happens to pillar 2 when you leave for another EU country? Can you keep the pillar2 pension pot in Switzerland and at retirement age get a private pension from Switzerland ?

What happens to pillar3 when you leave for another EU country?

doropfiz 10.08.2019 03:10

Re: What happens to pensions when you leave for an EU country?
 
Just checking, since your title speaks of "pensions" while your post seems to be about contributions to the three pillars, for potential future pensions.

Do you mean leaving Switzerland before or after starting to draw a pension (disability or old-age)?

Medea Fleecestealer 10.08.2019 08:40

Re: What happens to pensions when you leave for an EU country?
 
https://www.ch.ch/en/withdraw-pensio...om-switzerland

justcamehere 10.08.2019 14:45

Re: What happens to pensions when you leave for an EU country?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by doropfiz (Post 3089805)
Just checking, since your title speaks of "pensions" while your post seems to be about contributions to the three pillars, for potential future pensions.

Do you mean leaving Switzerland before or after starting to draw a pension (disability or old-age)?

Before starting to draw

justcamehere 10.08.2019 14:45

Re: What happens to pensions when you leave for an EU country?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer (Post 3089819)

Thanks !

FrankZappa 10.08.2019 15:25

Re: What happens to pensions when you leave for an EU country?
 
Everybody wants to withdraw their pensions... Well, I, for one, have no illusions about my capacity to invest that money wisely, so I'll be getting my AVS paid straight into my Swiss bank account starting on my 65th birthday, whilst living here in France. There is absolutely no problem, AFAIK.

justcamehere 15.08.2019 01:40

Re: What happens to pensions when you leave for an EU country?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankZappa (Post 3089933)
Everybody wants to withdraw their pensions... Well, I, for one, have no illusions about my capacity to invest that money wisely, so I'll be getting my AVS paid straight into my Swiss bank account starting on my 65th birthday, whilst living here in France. There is absolutely no problem, AFAIK.

I don't necessarily want to withdraw but I want to know the options, ie is it possible to leave pillar2 & pillar3 funds in Switzerland if someone relocates?

catandmouse 15.08.2019 11:09

Re: What happens to pensions when you leave for an EU country?
 
Pillar 1 = State pension. The state where you retire is responsible for coordinating the claims for state pensions of all EU, EEA and CH countries where you've worked and made contributions. In my case the AVS office in Geneva was responsible, as that was where I was working, though I live in Vaud. The French and German pension services were relatively competent though slow, the UK totally incompetent, like talking to a black hole, indeed I'm still trying to get any reaction out of them, a year since the Genevan office initiated my claim.
Pillar 2 = Company pensions. Will depend on the rules of the particular scheme. You can usually withdraw the capital, but will generally have to request to do this well in advance. Otherwise they just pay out the pension.
Pillar 3 = A Swiss thing, though most countries have something similar (tax-advantaged savings scheme for retirement). In Switzerland all Pillar 3 accounts will be closed once you reach state retirement age (64 women, 65 men), irrespective of whether you've discussed this with the bank or not. You'll be liable for tax (at a specific rate, not related to your normal tax declaration, but which is different from one canton to the next). Most banks will simply convert your Pillar 3 account to a normal savings account, unless you give them other instructions.

aSwissInTheUS 15.08.2019 13:51

Re: What happens to pensions when you leave for an EU country?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by justcamehere (Post 3091458)
I don't necessarily want to withdraw but I want to know the options, ie is it possible to leave pillar2 & pillar3 funds in Switzerland if someone relocates?

Before or after retirement age?

justcamehere 15.08.2019 15:17

Re: What happens to pensions when you leave for an EU country?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aSwissInTheUS (Post 3091627)
Before or after retirement age?

before

aSwissInTheUS 15.08.2019 15:45

Re: What happens to pensions when you leave for an EU country?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by justcamehere (Post 3091657)
before

See https://www.sem.admin.ch/dam/data/se...zialvers-e.pdf

Pillar 1: https://www.ahv-iv.ch/p/880.e

Pillar 2: As you are no longer employed with a Swiss employer your current pillar 2 plan will most likely end and the accumulated the pension money has to be parked in a so called vested benefit account. Such accounts are provided by banks, insurance companies, fund management companies, and if all fails by CHAEIS http://www.chaeis.net/en/home.html which must take you by law. CHAEIS also offeres optional pillar 2 insurance. But I do not know if person from abroad are eligble http://www.chaeis.net/en/lob-occupat...g-kopie-1.html (Information not available in English).

In addition you can cash in the non-mandatory part of pillar 2 (subject to pay out tax, can be retrived based on double taxation agreements if 'taxed' in new country of residence.). If you live in an EU country cashing-in of the mandatory part is subject to some restriction.

Pillar 3a: If it is a pillar 3a bank account you can cash it in. Which is best as pillar 3a payout taxation is a quasi capital gains tax.
If it is a pillar 3a insurance or funds scheme you will have to read and unterstand its complicated and unfavorable terms and conditions. Cashing in a insurance scheme before maturity is normally associated with heavy financial loss and thus recommended to stay away from them as far as possible.

Note: Pillar 3b is all your other worldly assets.

justcamehere 15.08.2019 18:26

Re: What happens to pensions when you leave for an EU country?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aSwissInTheUS (Post 3091672)
See Note: Pillar 3b is all your other worldly assets.

What do you mean with this ? ( I haven't yet looked into how Pillar 3b works )

aSwissInTheUS 15.08.2019 18:53

Re: What happens to pensions when you leave for an EU country?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by justcamehere (Post 3091718)
What do you mean with this ? ( I haven't yet looked into how Pillar 3b works )

Simple: The Swiss retirement system is based on three pillars. The third pillar, is known as voluntary savings and investments. It consist of the tax preferred part a and the non tax preferred part b.

In conclusion pillar 3b are all your possessions, which are neither, pillar 1, pillar 2, nor pillar 3a. Like the money in the saving and checking account, your shares and bonds, all your real estate, the collection of valuable paintings and sport cars, the diamonds and precious metals, the money stuffed in the mattress or hidden in the cookie jar, etc.

Got it?

justcamehere 16.08.2019 09:32

Re: What happens to pensions when you leave for an EU country?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aSwissInTheUS (Post 3091725)
Simple: The Swiss retirement system is based on three pillars. The third pillar, is known as voluntary savings and investments. It consist of the tax preferred part a and the non tax preferred part b.

In conclusion pillar 3b are all your possessions, which are neither, pillar 1, pillar 2, nor pillar 3a. Like the money in the saving and checking account, your shares and bonds, all your real estate, the collection of valuable paintings and sport cars, the diamonds and precious metals, the money stuffed in the mattress or hidden in the cookie jar, etc.

Got it?

So what distinguishes a pillar3b product from buying assets via a brokerage account ?

roegner 16.08.2019 09:40

Re: What happens to pensions when you leave for an EU country?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by justcamehere (Post 3091810)
So what distinguishes a pillar3b product from buying assets via a brokerage account ?

Nothing much, just that it might be cheaper not going through the bank :)

aSwissInTheUS 16.08.2019 10:17

Re: What happens to pensions when you leave for an EU country?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by justcamehere (Post 3091810)
So what distinguishes a pillar3b product from buying assets via a brokerage account ?

Except that one is explicitly labeled and marketed as such? Absolutely nothing as the brokerage account is also pillar 3b. :D

I thought I was clear. So once again:

Is the brokerage account pillar 1? No.
Is it pillar 2? No.
--> So it is pillar 3!
Is it tax preferred pillar 3a? No.
--> So it is pillar 3b!


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