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  #21  
Old 27.08.2019, 11:55
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Re: Credit card: 1.2% international processing fee... avoidable?

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They charge a fee for paying in CHF? that's outrageous. I would instantly change banks if UBS starts doing the same.
According to the article UBS doesn't charge for paying in CHF.
However, while paying abroad in CHF the so called Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) of the merchant (or merchant's bank) is used which is usually a very unfavourable exchange rate.
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  #22  
Old 27.08.2019, 13:50
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Re: Credit card: 1.2% international processing fee... avoidable?

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What time, what day was it? Was it during the weekend? What does "significant" means? How much percentage load?
Well, at this moment in time (10:14:20 CEST) Revolut gives me 1.0889 CHF per euro and Oanda live rates bid/ask shows 1.086/1.089. Can you compare with your card's rate is at this time?
We were able to make the comparison the following way:
The price to pay/transaction was in CHF. We checked how much we needed to load onto the card in Euro to pay the exact amount in CHF with Revolut.
Thinking that Revolut was the best option the loading of the money onto Revolut in Euro was our first choice.
However Revolut at that moment (no surprise) had a technical glitch and the reload could not be performed. We noted down the amount in Euro however which was needed to pay the amount in CHF.
Because the reload would not go through, we used a Euro credit card (which has no foreign transaction fee) and paid the amount directly on the website in CHF.
When the amount appeared on the CC statement, we could see that it was lower than the amount in Euro that Revolut had required to pay the CHF transaction.
So thanks to Revolut's technical glitch, we paid using another card and to our surprise saved money.
We have not used Revolut since.
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  #23  
Old 27.08.2019, 15:21
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Re: Credit card: 1.2% international processing fee... avoidable?

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According to the article UBS doesn't charge for paying in CHF.
However, while paying abroad in CHF the so called Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) of the merchant (or merchant's bank) is used which is usually a very unfavourable exchange rate.

https://www.ubs.com/ch/en/private/ac...onal-fees.html

UBS charges 1.75% for any CHF transaction processed abroad.
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Old 27.08.2019, 16:09
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Re: Credit card: 1.2% international processing fee... avoidable?

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We were able to make the comparison the following way:
The price to pay/transaction was in CHF. We checked how much we needed to load onto the card in Euro to pay the exact amount in CHF with Revolut.
Thinking that Revolut was the best option the loading of the money onto Revolut in Euro was our first choice.
However Revolut at that moment (no surprise) had a technical glitch and the reload could not be performed. We noted down the amount in Euro however which was needed to pay the amount in CHF.
Because the reload would not go through, we used a Euro credit card (which has no foreign transaction fee) and paid the amount directly on the website in CHF.
When the amount appeared on the CC statement, we could see that it was lower than the amount in Euro that Revolut had required to pay the CHF transaction.
So thanks to Revolut's technical glitch, we paid using another card and to our surprise saved money.
We have not used Revolut since.

This is wrong thinking on so many levels.
The EUR card charged whatever rate was applicable at end of that or the previous day. As Revolut gives you real time FX rates, you are comparing the FX rate at different times.

EUR/CHF routinely moves more than 50 pips in a day, so it could be the totally opposite result as well. You were lucky that market moved in your favour, nothing to do with what the providers are charging you.
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  #25  
Old 27.08.2019, 16:16
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Re: Credit card: 1.2% international processing fee... avoidable?

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The EUR card charged whatever rate was applicable at end of that or the previous day.
No, you can't know that as you don't know which Euro card was used nor how that card operates.

I will get back with how much the transaction was and how much the difference was when I receive that info.
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Old 27.08.2019, 16:19
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Re: Credit card: 1.2% international processing fee... avoidable?

The majority of credit cards have one fixed conversion rate per day per currency.

Would be interested to hear which credit cards use live rates?
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  #27  
Old 27.08.2019, 16:22
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Re: Credit card: 1.2% international processing fee... avoidable?

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The majority of credit cards have one fixed conversion rate per day per currency.
I never said they didn't.
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Old 27.08.2019, 16:26
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Re: Credit card: 1.2% international processing fee... avoidable?

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Name one please? Instead of rolling eyes?


I said majority as I can only speak about the major card providers I am aware of. No idea what happens in Russia or China or South Africa.....
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Old 27.08.2019, 16:59
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Re: Credit card: 1.2% international processing fee... avoidable?

Wow, I just checked Swisscard here and just looked at USD CHF rates for 26 Aug.

They have USDCHF at 1.0022496 and at no point was the rate on this day over 0.9817. That's a juicy spread holy molly
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Old 27.08.2019, 17:03
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Re: Credit card: 1.2% international processing fee... avoidable?

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Wow, I just checked Swisscard here and just looked at USD CHF rates for 26 Aug.

They have USDCHF at 1.0022496 and at no point was the rate on this day over 0.9817. That's a juicy spread holy molly



How do you think credit card companies make money other than screwing punters royally on exchange rates and spurious "foreign administration fees" of up to 2% ?
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  #31  
Old 27.08.2019, 17:07
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Re: Credit card: 1.2% international processing fee... avoidable?

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No idea what happens in Russia or China or South Africa.
Me neither.
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Wow, I just checked Swisscard here and just looked at USD CHF rates for 26 Aug.
They have USDCHF at 1.0022496 and at no point was the rate on this day over 0.9817.
Of course, this is the standard rip-off practice.
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  #32  
Old 27.08.2019, 23:07
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Re: Credit card: 1.2% international processing fee... avoidable?

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https://www.ubs.com/ch/en/private/ac...onal-fees.html

UBS charges 1.75% for any CHF transaction processed abroad.
Then by choosing to pay abroad in CHF (with UBS and most other banks cards) one pays the merchant DCC exchange rate which has been found by EU studies to be almost always worse than card issuer exchange rate and then the card issued fee.
Therefore in most cases it is better to pay in local currency.
For Revolut weekend markup one can exchange some money before a weekend purchase.

However, recently there was a news of multiple Revolut customer phishing attack (or hack of Revolut itself, nobody really knows yet) where people lost considerable amounts of money and were not sure if/when Revolut refounds the losses.
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  #33  
Old 27.08.2019, 23:35
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Re: Credit card: 1.2% international processing fee... avoidable?

But if you pay something in a different currency they also charge you 1.75% surcharge for paying in a foreign currency... 1.75% + UBS rate is probably as bad as the 1.75% + DCC exchange rate.

I couldn't find a solution for it, so I just stopped using the credit card outside of Switzerland.

To avoid the tax you really have to get a credit card in each currency, or ofc, revolut, n26 or any similiar app.

I'm personally using revolut... To avoid the weekend problem I try to convert the to the currency needed before the weekend.
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  #34  
Old 28.08.2019, 08:47
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Re: Credit card: 1.2% international processing fee... avoidable?

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What time, what day was it? Was it during the weekend? What does "significant" means? How much percentage load? Can you compare with your card's rate is at this time?
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The EUR card charged whatever rate was applicable at end of that or the previous day.
As promised, the transaction detail:

It was on a Sunday.
The amount was 88,68 - charged to our Euro card. It was charged immediately, so they don't use the rates at the end of that day, but you may be right in that they use the rates at the end of the previous day. I don't know if that card uses live rates, I would have to ask them.

The amount Revolut wanted for the exact same amount in CHF (which was CHF 97.70) was 90,48 - this is 1,80 higher than what the Euro card charged us.

In my view this is a significant difference, especially if you are right and both cards were using the Friday rate.

A 1,80 difference on a transaction of 90 is astonishingly large. Until that transaction we thought Revolut offered the best rates.
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Old 28.08.2019, 10:29
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Re: Credit card: 1.2% international processing fee... avoidable?

Sunday is not a good day to make that comparison as Revolut charges a markup value to prevent losses.

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At the weekend (Friday 00:00 - Sunday 23:59) we apply a small mark up on the spot rate as the Forex markets are closed. We take the rate from Friday 00:00 and apply a 0.5% mark up on major currencies and 1.0% on other currencies to protect the company from potential losses due to a large fluctuation in the rate. For illiquid currencies Russian Ruble and Thai Baht, there is 1.5% mark up on weekend.

I agree that 1.8 is a lot (more than the 1% stated here) but to have a fair comparison you should do that with a transaction during a work day.
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  #36  
Old 28.08.2019, 10:33
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Re: Credit card: 1.2% international processing fee... avoidable?

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I agree that 1.8€ is a lot (more than the 1% stated here) but to have a fair comparison you should do that with a transaction during a work day.
I would also argue however that on the practical side of things, a heck of a lot of transactions occur at the weekend when people are buying stuff. One needs to know where one stands on non-banking days too.
Revolut do not offer the best rates.
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Old 28.08.2019, 10:39
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Re: Credit card: 1.2% international processing fee... avoidable?

Yes. But as the terms are quite clear, a smart and easy way of avoiding the fee would have been to convert some money from CHF to EUR on Friday using the app.

Takes 30 seconds and would save you a few euros.
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  #38  
Old 28.08.2019, 10:41
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Re: Credit card: 1.2% international processing fee... avoidable?

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As promised, the transaction detail:

It was on a Sunday.
The amount was €88,68 - charged to our Euro card. It was charged immediately, so they don't use the rates at the end of that day, but you may be right in that they use the rates at the end of the previous day. I don't know if that card uses live rates, I would have to ask them.

The amount Revolut wanted for the exact same amount in CHF (which was CHF 97.70) was €90,48 - this is €1,80 higher than what the Euro card charged us.

In my view this is a significant difference, especially if you are right and both cards were using the Friday rate.

A €1,80 difference on a transaction of €90 is astonishingly large. Until that transaction we thought Revolut offered the best rates.
A good Revolut rule to follow: Don't use your Revolut card on weekends, unless you have that local currency in your account. Especially when making a purchase in a currency deemed illiquid. For example, a Thai Baht purchase will add a 2% fee on a weekend.

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If you exchange currencies on weekdays (Mon-Fri UTC) you will receive the interbank exchange rate without any markup on all currencies except for Thai Baht and Ukrainian Hryvnia where there's a 1% markup, with a small 0.5% fee for anything above 5,000 each month.

On the weekend (Sat-Sun London time) the provided rates are fixed to protect against fluctuations, this means there are markups of:

+0.5% to all major currencies (ie. USD, GBP, EUR, AUD, CAD, NZD, CHF, JPY, SEK, HKD, NOK, SGD, DKK, PLN, and CZK);

and

+1% to all other currencies including THB and UAH. (this means over the weekend THB and UAH have a 2% markup.)
Source

I've loved using Revolut for transferring money back to the states at essentially no cost. But their business practices are concerning.
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  #39  
Old 28.08.2019, 10:44
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Re: Credit card: 1.2% international processing fee... avoidable?

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I would also argue however that on the practical side of things, a heck of a lot of transactions occur at the weekend when people are buying stuff. One needs to know where one stands on non-banking days too.
As many have said, it's quite predictable when you would need a foreign currency during the weekend (say in a holiday), and just change in advance the estimated amount and some - whatever you have left you can change back next week because there is no charge. Yes, you are exposed to currency fluctuations along this period, but then you are exposed to that anyway - and so is Revolut.

And, frankly, how you can call an incidental a 2% loss astonishingly large when on a typical swiss credit cards you lose 3.5-4% on pretty much any transaction is beyond me. Sometimes I wonder whether you are just trolling.
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  #40  
Old 28.08.2019, 10:46
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Re: Credit card: 1.2% international processing fee... avoidable?

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Yes. But as the terms are quite clear, a smart and easy way of avoiding the fee would have been to convert some money from CHF to EUR on Friday using the app. Takes 30 seconds and would save you a few euros.
Far too faffy. I can't know in advance exactly what I am going to buy over the weekend, plus there is the hassle of not only having to load the money onto the card, but also to covert everything into the various currencies I need, ready for the mere possibility of transactions in these.
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A good Revolut rule to follow: Don't use your Revolut card on weekends, unless you have that local currency on your card.[/URL]
So now Revolut is only good for non-banking days? That's ridiculous and again, simply not worth the hassle.
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And, frankly, how you can call an incidental a 2% loss astonishingly large when on a typical swiss credit cards you lose 3.5-4% on pretty much any transaction is beyond me. Sometimes I wonder whether you are just trolling.
I only use my for Swiss credit cards for CHF transactions, so there is no fee.
For foreign transactions, mainly in Euro, we have cards in Euros, so again no fee. For non-Euro transactions with this Euro card, the rate is extremely good and there is no fee.

My partner wanted to pay for this particular CHF purchase alone and so decided to see how much in Euros was needed to do it.
It was only because the top up didn't work we used the Euro card for the CHF purchase and noticed that the rate was better than Revolut's rate.
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