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Old 06.11.2019, 02:53
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Vermogen Zentrum - feedback please?

Hello all!

Has anyone used Vermoegen Zentrum to advise on pension plan and investement matters?

I like that they are independent and seem to be solid (versus the banks themselves) but wanted to get some first hand experiences.

Thank you
K
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Old 06.11.2019, 03:48
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Re: Vermogen Zentrum - feedback please?

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Hello all!

Has anyone used Vermoegen Zentrum to advise on pension plan and investement matters?

I like that they are independent and seem to be solid (versus the banks themselves) but wanted to get some first hand experiences.

Thank you
K
Sorry to burst your bubble but an investment institution reporting AUM or NNM is not independent and is exactly the same any of the banks offering the same services.
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Old 06.11.2019, 04:42
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Re: Vermogen Zentrum - feedback please?

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Sorry to burst your bubble but an investment institution reporting AUM or NNM is not independent and is exactly the same any of the banks offering the same services.
Thanks - happy for the bubble burst as am here for that. Was thinking they would however have a better overview and given they do not take commission from the banks would be able to better advice. Wrong?
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Old 06.11.2019, 08:32
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Re: Vermogen Zentrum - feedback please?

About 10 years ago we were given a consultation paid for by my spouse's company a year or two before retirement. Using our tax declaration they were able to draw up a plan and prediction for pensions in retirement.

The predictions came out fairly accurately - except for the fact we did not buy into any of the investment plans they had. This is how they make their money I guess and charging for consultations. They chased us up a few times after our visit, but we told them we were not interested...
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Old 17.11.2019, 12:29
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Re: Vermogen Zentrum - feedback please?

Hi - it's too expensive and they are a bank!! (like others!!)
Best regards Alain



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Hello all!

Has anyone used Vermoegen Zentrum to advise on pension plan and investement matters?

I like that they are independent and seem to be solid (versus the banks themselves) but wanted to get some first hand experiences.

Thank you
K
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Old 17.11.2019, 12:58
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Re: Vermogen Zentrum - feedback please?

Might want to try BVG first. They claim to be independent. Been meaning to check em out but haven't gone yet.
https://www.bvgauskuenfte.ch/vorsorg...ienstleistung/

Vermogen Zentrum also offer a free first time consultation.
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Old 17.11.2019, 14:43
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Re: Vermogen Zentrum - feedback please?

We paid for a consultation at the Vermogen Zentrum a couple years ago. Takeaway:


- they have a canned forumula which they use to determine your financial health, easy to de-construct in an excel workbook.
- they base everything on a single snapshot of your current financial status/income (what else could they do?). Reality is that our situation changes constantly and our income is far from static, so their calculation was really just a rough indicator.
- we paid about 3K bucks in total


So, it was interesting, but not a definitive guide to our financial future. Everything changes constantly, interest rates, real estate prices, our income, our expenditures, unexpected expenses, job loss, illness etc.



My financial advise (given free of charge) is simply to save 20% of your after-tax income, max-out on your 3rd pillar savings every year, and stay up-to-date with the latest developments in your field (or delve into other fields of work) just to maximize your chance of keeping a job as you get older - it gets pretty tough after 50. Everything else is just luck of the draw.
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Old 17.11.2019, 15:57
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Re: Vermogen Zentrum - feedback please?

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Might want to try BVG first. They claim to be independent. Been meaning to check em out but haven't gone yet.
https://www.bvgauskuenfte.ch/vorsorg...ienstleistung/

According to their website (here an approximate deepl translation):

Competent and free for over 10 years

The association (in German this reads "Verein") was founded in 1998 by dedicated experts in the field of occupational pensions to provide free information for insured persons of pension funds (BVG information for short).

The idea was and still is to provide pension fund members and their relatives with independent and free advice.

Our experience shows that despite the efforts of pension funds to keep their members up to date at all times, the information does not arrive at all or only incompletely. For example, the insured often do not know who to turn to in the event of a problem or question.

Every pension fund has its own rules. Therefore, information for personal questions is much more important than with other social insurance schemes.

On the basis of the documents, our experts can clarify many questions immediately in a conversation.

Experience has shown that even difficult and complex cases can be solved within a quarter of an hour or at least the person seeking advice can be helped.

The association currently has almost 200 members from all over Switzerland.

The expenses are covered by membership fees. The association can also count on sponsors and patrons who support and support its goal.

André Tapernoux
President


Here is their list of sponsors and patrons:
https://www.bvgauskuenfte.ch/sponsoren-goenner/

They hold free sessions almost every month, at various places around the country:
https://www.bvgauskuenfte.ch/termine/
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Old 18.11.2019, 02:07
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Re: Vermogen Zentrum - feedback please?

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Might want to try BVG first. They claim to be independent. Been meaning to check em out but haven't gone yet.
https://www.bvgauskuenfte.ch/vorsorg...ienstleistung/

Vermogen Zentrum also offer a free first time consultation.
Thanks - they seem to do mostly advise on LPP whilst I am more looking at someone who can independently advise on the best products to reach retirement age with the capital we want/need, given where we are at nowadays.

Last edited by kri; 18.11.2019 at 02:18.
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Old 18.11.2019, 04:49
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Re: Vermogen Zentrum - feedback please?

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Thanks - they seem to do mostly advise on LPP whilst I am more looking at someone who can independently advise on the best products to reach retirement age with the capital we want/need, given where we are at nowadays.
Where are you based? If as your profile suggests - Singapore, then this is not going to work in any case. The products offered to the general public in Switzerland are designed to best suit Swiss residents in terms of tax advantages etc and the staff are trained to best advise Swiss residents. The products offered may not even be available to none residents and certainly will not take into account your current situation thus leading to poor or incorrect advice.

You probably need advice with an international reach rather than a local Swiss advisory organization.
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Old 18.11.2019, 06:16
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Re: Vermogen Zentrum - feedback please?

Thanks - currently in Singapore but bulk of pension saving is in CH and that is our home country where we will return to eventually and retire hence we need advice there.

Indeed products aimed at maximizing tax saving will not work for us, but am hoping professional organizations can cater to all sorts of needs.

K
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Old 18.11.2019, 10:16
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Re: Vermogen Zentrum - feedback please?

VZ has a lot to recommend it. For example, they offer discounted collective insurance policies (supplementary health insurance, car insurance, etc.). They also have one of the most affordable ETF-based wealth management services on the market.

They have a sound knowledge of the Swiss retirement system, so consultation primarily applies to retirement planning in a Swiss context. Their pillar 3a investment solutions are cheaper than most, but not the most affordable available.

If you do not live in Switzerland, there isn't much reason to make use of VZ in my opinion.

If your retirement savings are in the form of pillar 2 vested benefits or pillar 3a savings, then I recommend you keep them in the highest-yield accounts available. You can compare these here:
https://www.moneyland.ch/en/pillar-3a-comparison
https://www.moneyland.ch/en/vested-b...nts-comparison

If you want to invest your assets, I recommend VIAC, a low-cost robo advisor. If you want to invest in Swiss retirement funds directly, you can compare costs here:
https://www.moneyland.ch/en/retirement-fund-comparison

If you plan to retire in Switzerland, consider living in Schwyz or another low-tax canton (at least temporarily) until you've fully withdrawn your retirement savings.
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Old 18.11.2019, 11:58
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Re: Vermogen Zentrum - feedback please?

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Thanks - currently in Singapore but bulk of pension saving is in CH and that is our home country where we will return to eventually and retire hence we need advice there.

Indeed products aimed at maximizing tax saving will not work for us, but am hoping professional organizations can cater to all sorts of needs.

K
You are a very small minority and companies don’t make money out of investing in providing such services. So good luck in your search.
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Old 18.11.2019, 15:08
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Re: Vermogen Zentrum - feedback please?

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- they have a canned formula which they use to determine your financial health, easy to de-construct in an excel workbook.
- they base everything on a single snapshot of your current financial status/income (what else could they do?). Reality is that our situation changes constantly and our income is far from static, so their calculation was really just a rough indicator.

So, it was interesting, but not a definitive guide to our financial future. Everything changes constantly, interest rates, real estate prices, our income, our expenditures, unexpected expenses, job loss, illness etc.
.
I too went through their process, and I have positive vibes.
I found it valuable and important to review my own pension planning with trained professionals, within their Model, and after only a couple of meetings (done in English).

I received a couple of pieces of advice, each one would have more than paid for the whole process [I was only a year away at the time of Retirement]. I know 2 neighbours who advised me, and said the same thing regarding VZ with their own personal situations. VZ's broad, local (Swiss), current knowledge is very valuable (in my opinion), and comes at a relatively cheap price.

Modelling beyond a snapshot...

I chose to create a new Excel Workbook based on VZ's (2-page, printed German) output. It was easy to see the Workbook logic, and how the calculations worked. The overall picture, happened to be not too dis-similar from my own pre-modelling that I had done, but theirs was better structured going forward. I felt they would not want to share the Excel source with me (understandably), and I chose not to even ask, but to create my own source.
This would be in the capability of many Excel Users, I would politely suggest. Most time was spent typing in the translated text (from German to English) for each row header, and doing simple arithmetic formulas (which were explained in the Meeting) in the row/column cells. Then one can tweak as needed the data cells such as Income, Expenditure etc as needed.
This allows me to have a solid, dynamic model, which I can now update whenever I want (yearly).
It wasn't difficult! Having the (Excel) Model Structure validated by VZ, and talked through in my context is the important thing. The accuracy of the data is my responsibility and I have a good dynamic model that I am comfortable with going forward (thanks to VZ)!
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