Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 20.11.2019, 17:05
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Wallisellen
Posts: 62
Groaned at 12 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 9 Posts
cserdar has no particular reputation at present
A1 form from UK - What now?

Hi all,

I have been employed both in the UK and Switzerland and maintain my life in the UK whilist staying in Switzerland with B permit.

As a result, UK goverment has now issued me the A1 form that shows I'm still paying my contributions and a part of the UK's social system.

Does anyone here have an experience with this? Can I now use that to be exempt from some of the social contributions here such as pension or taxes? (Everything is deducted from my salary for the timebeing).

If yes, who do I speak to

Thanks in advance.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 20.11.2019, 18:15
Mullhollander's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Aargau
Posts: 2,589
Groaned at 10 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 3,637 Times in 1,594 Posts
Mullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A1 form from UK - What now?

One of the purposes of the A1 is to allow social charges to be paid in only one country.

Your HR department (or you) should contact your Swiss compensation fund (Ausgleichskasse). Possibly the Ausgleichskasse will also request that you complete this form (English):

https://sozialversicherungen.admin.c.../6284/download
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 21.11.2019, 10:25
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Wallisellen
Posts: 62
Groaned at 12 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 9 Posts
cserdar has no particular reputation at present
Re: A1 form from UK - What now?

Thank you. Just contacted them and they asked me to send the form. Let's see what happens.

In the meantime, do you know what contributions or deductions may be lifted?

I have currently the following deductions from my Swiss salary

AHV contribution
UI contribution
Sick pay insurance
PF Savings contr. empl.
PF Suppl. contr. empl.
Withholding Tax

Thanks again.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 21.11.2019, 10:42
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,028
Groaned at 450 Times in 344 Posts
Thanked 22,336 Times in 11,554 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A1 form from UK - What now?

Quote:
View Post
Thank you. Just contacted them and they asked me to send the form. Let's see what happens.

In the meantime, do you know what contributions or deductions may be lifted?

I have currently the following deductions from my Swiss salary

AHV contribution
UI contribution
Sick pay insurance
PF Savings contr. empl.
PF Suppl. contr. empl.
Withholding Tax

Thanks again.
You will still have those same deductions from your Swiss earnings.
You will still get a Swiss Old age pension, Unemployment benefits, Sick Pay & Private pension. Clearly the Swiss will deduct tax as well.

You have a B permit, you are LIVING in CH.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 21.11.2019, 11:00
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Wallisellen
Posts: 62
Groaned at 12 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 9 Posts
cserdar has no particular reputation at present
Re: A1 form from UK - What now?

so you are basically saying the A1 form the UK has goverment has provided me with is useless?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 21.11.2019, 11:19
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,783
Groaned at 99 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 19,576 Times in 8,681 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A1 form from UK - What now?

If your center of life is in the UK you might think about permit G.

Permit B means your center of life is in Switzerland.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 21.11.2019, 12:06
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,028
Groaned at 450 Times in 344 Posts
Thanked 22,336 Times in 11,554 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A1 form from UK - What now?

Quote:
View Post
so you are basically saying the A1 form the UK has goverment has provided me with is useless?
In any case those need to be paid on Swiss Earnings. Why uselsss NI is paid in the UK as a percentage of earnings so the more you earn the more you pay.

Your permit is for someone who permanently lives in CH, you cant have it both ways, either you are Swiss resident or you are not.
How did you get a B permit if you did not claim to live in CH?

If you have a B permit you will be able to work in CH after BREXIT, that I don't believe is guaranteed with a G cross border permit.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 22.11.2019, 16:36
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Wallisellen
Posts: 62
Groaned at 12 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 9 Posts
cserdar has no particular reputation at present
Re: A1 form from UK - What now?

I just got the B permit and never thought about the UK employment. Then someone told me about the A1 form and I reuqested it without knowing much about it.

So right now, I have B permit and A1 form that I dont know what to do with
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 22.11.2019, 17:02
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Zurich
Posts: 614
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 820 Times in 326 Posts
eairicbloodaxe has a reputation beyond reputeeairicbloodaxe has a reputation beyond reputeeairicbloodaxe has a reputation beyond reputeeairicbloodaxe has a reputation beyond reputeeairicbloodaxe has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A1 form from UK - What now?

Quote:
View Post

Your permit is for someone who permanently lives in CH, you cant have it both ways, either you are Swiss resident or you are not.

.
Unfortunately, you can have it both ways. I have a B permit tied to my full time employment with my Swiss employer, but because I have a house in the UK available for my use and I commute back there each weekend, I am also resident in the UK.

Unless you can try really really hard to leave the UK, yes that form is a complete waste of space.

Regards


Ian
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank eairicbloodaxe for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 22.11.2019, 17:07
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Zurich
Posts: 614
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 820 Times in 326 Posts
eairicbloodaxe has a reputation beyond reputeeairicbloodaxe has a reputation beyond reputeeairicbloodaxe has a reputation beyond reputeeairicbloodaxe has a reputation beyond reputeeairicbloodaxe has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A1 form from UK - What now?

Oh and it may not be easy to avoid double paying NI and Swiss contributions in your case. The double tax treaty is only about income taxes, not national insurances.

I gave up working part time for my UK company when I moved here because it was too difficult (and expensive with accountants) to sort out... easier and cheaper for me to do without that extra hassle.

And I still have not won my argument with HMRC that some Swiss contributions are considered tax here (in that you get relief) so should be considered the same when working out what I owe as the difference.

Good luck.


Ian
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 22.11.2019, 17:58
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,028
Groaned at 450 Times in 344 Posts
Thanked 22,336 Times in 11,554 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A1 form from UK - What now?

Quote:
View Post
Oh and it may not be easy to avoid double paying NI and Swiss contributions in your case. The double tax treaty is only about income taxes, not national insurances.

I gave up working part time for my UK company when I moved here because it was too difficult (and expensive with accountants) to sort out... easier and cheaper for me to do without that extra hassle.

And I still have not won my argument with HMRC that some Swiss contributions are considered tax here (in that you get relief) so should be considered the same when working out what I owe as the difference.

Good luck.


Ian
UK don't allow a deduction for NI insurance so I suspect only the pillar 2 they will accept.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 26.11.2019, 16:03
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Wallisellen
Posts: 62
Groaned at 12 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 9 Posts
cserdar has no particular reputation at present
Re: A1 form from UK - What now?

Quote:
View Post
One of the purposes of the A1 is to allow social charges to be paid in only one country.

Your HR department (or you) should contact your Swiss compensation fund (Ausgleichskasse). Possibly the Ausgleichskasse will also request that you complete this form (English):

https://sozialversicherungen.admin.c.../6284/download
This is exaclty what happened at the end. They want me to complete this. Would this benefit me in the form of paying less contributions in Switzerland?

If not, I dont really see the point..
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03.09.2020, 16:18
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Zurich
Posts: 88
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 37 Times in 20 Posts
alsion has made some interesting contributions
Re: A1 form from UK - What now?

Perhaps it helps to understand the purpose of an A1 form, which is for workers who are sent on temporary assignment (up to 2 years) to work in another EU/CH/NO country. You remain under an employment contract in your home country (UK) but have a Swiss workplace and job role for a short time. During this limited time period you can remain on the home (UK) social security system and not pay into the other country's (CH) system. The A1 form is the proof you need for this.

In your case you are permanently working in Switzerland under a Swiss work contract and having a B permit residence permit. So you must pay into the Swiss system.

By living in the UK you will additionally have UK obligations but this might not be the same as someone with a UK place of employment. e.g. maybe you only need to make voluntary Class 3??? (Sorry, I can't remember all the different classes of NIC off the top of my head.) Remember you are a Swiss employee and this is the primary place of taxation & social security.

As was stated already above, there is no "double social security relief" treaty (like for taxes). There are special "border worker" agreements between Switzerland and France/Italy/Germany, but to my knowledge, not with the UK, so there will be some doubling up.

Regarding taxes: by default, under Swiss tax law, you are likely to be Swiss tax resident and liable to pay tax on your worldwide income in Switzerland due to having a B permit and/or the time you are spending there. Under the Swiss-UK tax treaty tie break clause, you are likely to be finally be UK resident, but this exemption may not be automatically granted, you may need to apply for this in Switzerland.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
18.44 form DukeWoodbridge Permits/visas/government 0 27.06.2019 17:29
E1 Form Hammyema Permits/visas/government 0 27.05.2019 11:31
help with 18.44 form mikUk Permits/visas/government 2 16.07.2014 10:33
BKB asking for U.S. Tax Compliance Form and U.S. Waiver Form lorien2012 Finance/banking/taxation 19 03.04.2013 21:40
IRS Form? bwand8gv Finance/banking/taxation 3 06.03.2009 15:30


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 16:46.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0